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Mibrew
Sep 29, 2005, 05:16 AM
Scientists: 'We will have to live with the outcome'

Thursday, September 29, 2005; Posted: 2:57 a.m. EDT (06:57 GMT)

NEW YORK, (Reuters) -- The Arctic ice shelf has melted for the fourth straight year to its smallest area in a century, driven by rising temperatures that appear linked to a buildup of greenhouse gases, U.S. scientists said Wednesday.

Scientists at NASA and the National Snow and Ice Data Center, which have monitored the ice via satellites since 1978, say the total Arctic ice in 2005 will cover the smallest area since they started measuring.

It is the least amount of Arctic ice in at least a century, according to both the satellite data and shipping data going back many more years, according to a report from the groups.

As of September 21, the Arctic sea ice area had dropped to 2.05 million square miles (5.31 million square km), the report said.

From 1978 to 2000, the sea ice area averaged 2.70 million square miles (7 million square km), the report said. It noted the melting trend had shrunk Inuit hunting grounds and endangered polar bears, seals and other wildlife.

The report warns that if melting rates continue, the summertime Arctic may be completely ice-free before the end of the century, echoing last year's findings from the Arctic Council, an eight-nation report by 250 experts.

The melting trend increasingly appeared to be caused by a buildup of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, the scientists said.

"It's increasingly difficult to argue against the notion that at least part of what we are seeing in the Arctic, in terms of sea ice, in terms of warming temperatures ... is due to the greenhouse effect," Mark Serreze, a research scientist at NSIDC, said in an interview.

"We've put a hit on the system and we are in the midst of a grand global experiment," Serreze said about the impact of global warming and ice melting on humans and animals. "We will have to live with the outcome."

The NSIDC, part of the University of Colorado at Boulder, helps NASA analyze satellite data.

Most scientists believe greenhouse gases, including carbon dioxide that is released mainly from cars and utility smokestacks, cause global warming by trapping solar heat in the atmosphere. Many believe global warming can lead to catastrophic consequences, including raising sea levels and strengthening weather events such as hurricanes.

One Arctic variation, known as Arctic Oscillation, an atmospheric circulation pattern that can push sea ice out of the area, had become less of an influence in the region since the mid-1990s, the report said.

Inuit hunters threatened by the melting of Arctic ice plan to file a petition in December accusing the United States of violating their human rights by fueling global warming. The Bush administration has opted out of the Kyoto Treaty to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

The Inuit number about 155,000 people in Canada, Alaska, Greenland and Russia.

Scientists say the Arctic is warming faster than the rest of the globe because water or bare earth, once uncovered, soaks up more heat than ice and snow. That process means melting can spur even warmer temperatures and more melting

Patagoniamaniac
Sep 29, 2005, 06:59 AM
Thats pretty scary.. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/sad3.gif

MadScot
Sep 29, 2005, 10:01 AM
I don't think it's anywhere near that far off. This is like a snowball rolling downhill. The melting isn't going to continue at it's present rate it will do so exponentially. Katrina and Rita are nothing compared to what's right around the corner. When the western ice shelf (size of texas) falls the resulting tsunami will more than likely destroy all coastal life around and in the pacific ocean. Some simulations put the resulting wave at over a mile in height. California may once again have an inland sea. I've always been amazed in all the biosphere simulations I've done how little you have to tip the scale before the runaway effect takes place. At this point I don't think there is much that can be done. If we stopped using fossil fuels tomorrow it may still be too late and we know that's not happening anyway.

"Perchance he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill, as that he
knows not it tolls for him; and perchance I may think myself so
much better than I am, as that they who are about me, and see my
state, may have caused it to toll for me, and I know not that." -John Donne

Mibrew
Sep 29, 2005, 11:14 AM
Waves rise as mountains
And rise to the heavens,
And with horror drops glances
Into instantly dug abysses
A disturbing force like passion,
does not know of a centre point,
Now to the sky, now into the precipice throws
A boat without an oar or rudder.

MtnBreeze
Sep 29, 2005, 06:12 PM
There are many effects from melting....one being the dilution of salt in the ocean causing the currents that effect weather to slow down. I read an article where it predicted the global warming could throw us rapidly into an Ice age if the gulf stream stops (which it appears will happen within 20 years) I know this seems contradictory to global warming since the warming is melting everything but the effect is suppose to create havoc with weather...thus rapid freezing.
I'll try to find a link to this info.

MtnBreeze
Sep 30, 2005, 12:18 PM
Here is one link some of you might find interesting reading.
http://www.whoi.edu/institutes/occi/currenttopics/climatechange_wef.html

Coldwolf
Sep 30, 2005, 12:47 PM
Waves rise as mountains
And rise to the heavens,
Brew...Tolstoy?

MadScot
Sep 23, 2006, 08:26 AM
According to satellite photos you could have sailed all the way to the north pole this year.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14924575/

Yosemite Joy
Sep 24, 2006, 09:05 AM
This is surprising because? The only thing that is really surprising is that they say 2100, and not 2010.

Kahlua Kid
Oct 02, 2006, 06:58 PM
Polar Bears are drowning and could potentially go extint also. They are losing their habitat due to the ice melt.

MtnBreeze
Oct 03, 2006, 09:34 AM
What I totally don't understand is how humans think they are somehow immune to the effects of all this. We bounce merrily along pulluting and thinking the things we share this earth with are dispensible. We think it doesn't matter that we greedily use up the resources and pollute Mother Earth. We go after the almighty dollar at the expense of everything else and somehow refuse to take responsibilty for our actions. One thing is certain...perhaps it is already to late but FOR SURE the consequences are irreversible if we don't wake up fast. The snowball won't quit rolling unless we do something NOW. And I agree that it isn't 100 years from now. It is emminent. What is sad is that we have the technology to turn it around right now but it isn't as profitable????????????? What the heck good is wealth if we are all dead!!! We each can do things to help change it. See An Inconvenient Truth and watch it with an open mind(non political). It will be out on dvd in November.
Learn what you can do to help. Visit websites and Learn as much as you can. Here are just a few.
http://www.nwf.org/globalwarming/
http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/
http://www.greenfacts.org/climate-change/global-warming...-warming-effects.htm (http://www.greenfacts.org/climate-change/global-warming-effects/global-warming-effects.htm)
http://www.nwf.org/nationalwildlife/article.cfm?issueID=109&articleID=1361

Patagoniamaniac
Oct 03, 2006, 11:00 AM
glad I wont be around....

Kahlua Kid
Oct 03, 2006, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by MtnBreeze:
What I totally don't understand is how humans think they are somehow immune to the effects of all this. We bounce merrily along pulluting and thinking the things we share this earth with are dispensible. We think it doesn't matter that we greedily use up the resources and pollute Mother Earth. We go after the almighty dollar at the expense of everything else and somehow refuse to take responsibilty for our actions. One thing is certain...perhaps it is already to late but FOR SURE the consequences are irreversible if we don't wake up fast. The snowball won't quit rolling unless we do something NOW. And I agree that it isn't 100 years from now. It is emminent. What is sad is that we have the technology to turn it around right now but it isn't as profitable????????????? What the heck good is wealth if we are all dead!!! We each can do things to help change it. See An Inconvenient Truth and watch it with an open mind(non political). It will be out on dvd in November.
Learn what you can do to help. Visit websites and Learn as much as you can. Here are just a few.
http://www.nwf.org/globalwarming/
http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/
http://www.greenfacts.org/climate-change/global-warming...-warming-effects.htm (http://www.greenfacts.org/climate-change/global-warming-effects/global-warming-effects.htm)
http://www.nwf.org/nationalwildlife/article.cfm?issueID=109&articleID=1361

http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/applause.gif

Extremely well said - I totally agree with you!