View Full Version : Debate 1 of 3
Sandman
Sep 30, 2004, 04:55 PM
Sandman
Sep 30, 2004, 04:57 PM
I was on an airplane during the debate, but am at my aunt and uncles house in SF watching it on the Tivo. Seems to me that the rules of no cut away shots were broken...
Sandman
Sep 30, 2004, 07:03 PM
I watched the debate and I would have to say that Kerry was a much better debator tonight. Bush was trying to kill time and rarely used his time. He blew off the last 20 seconds of his closing argument. I have seen much better high school debators.
Kerry looked strong.
Raider
Oct 01, 2004, 03:18 AM
I'm looking for a good president not just a good debater.
Newcomer
Oct 01, 2004, 03:18 AM
Kerry looked very strong and I liked that he looked Bush directly in the eyes when addressing him on the issues. Bush for a while had that same face expression that he had whe he was told the country was under attack. He seemed lost and confused, When he did nt have that look he looked annoyed and acted pissy. Kerry kept his composure. IMO
Raider
Oct 01, 2004, 03:31 AM
When someone stands there lying it tends to piss you off. Kerry was great if all you want is someone who keeps saying I have a plan for this and a plan for that, but won't tell us what those plans are. But by all means do be sure to get the UNs approval before defending this country. http://oakhurstforums.com/icon/veryangry.gif
Raider
Oct 01, 2004, 03:41 AM
Unbeknownst to Kerry adviser Mike McCurry, a C-SPAN camera quietly followed McCurry as he found Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart on Spin Alley floor and asked him his impression of the debate. Lockhart candidly said to McCurry , âThe consensus is it was a draw.â
Jimi
Oct 01, 2004, 03:43 AM
if you listened to it ... it was very much a draw .... I thought Bush did better listening to it .... left wing think Kerry did .... that is a draw
Newcomer
Oct 01, 2004, 03:52 AM
Yeah, Bush has a great plan, Lets invade a country for something that does not exist. Lets lets our kids get blown to pieces. Lets stay in a country (IRAQ) that the people don't want us there. Lets say the war is over and lose more of our troops after the war is supposed to be over than when it was going on and this number increases each month. Lets overlook the security of the WMD that we have right here in our own country that have minimal if any security to protect them when we know that terrorist groups are living in out country and coulod have access to them at any time. Yeah, Bushes plan sounds like a great one that's really working. I am ready for a change or new approach is what I am saying. Bush says he won't waiver ffrom his decision at all so that means same ol same ol. More kids dying for his lies about WMD being there.
A smart man knows when to fall back and re-group....
Raider
Oct 01, 2004, 03:57 AM
Have you not been safe since 9/11.
Newcomer
Oct 01, 2004, 04:10 AM
Up here in the hills Yes, But for how long? It's only a matter of time. Mark my words on that one.
Let me ask this of the Bush supporters here. How many of you have served your Country in the military? or for that Overseas. I did 8 years serving my country 80 miles from the Russian border from 1979 on. So I know what it feels like to live in fear of having to face an enemy that is that close. I was also one of the volunteers that had to sort through body pieces of soldiers from the Beirut bombing victims as they were shipped back to my base. I had anger that you would not believe towards terrorism and still do. We had to burn our uniforms from the stench of the dead. I was ready to fight if I had to. Luckly I did not as the wall came down. WHat have you done for your country?
Raider
Oct 01, 2004, 04:18 AM
That's just stupid. That doesn't make you any better than any one else,so get off your high horse. I can't argue with people that are ignorant and think they know everythig,so thats all I have to say.
Newcomer
Oct 01, 2004, 04:19 AM
Interesting, I was just looking at page view for the site
Page Views 66600
Must have known I was thinking about Bush.
Newcomer
Oct 01, 2004, 04:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Raider:
That's just stupid. That doesn't make you any better than any one else,so get off your high horse. I can't argue with people that are ignorant and think they know everythig,so thats all I have to say. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I did not say I was any better than anyone else. I asked the question (even though it was off topic) What have you done for your country?
And just like Bush, you dodged the ?.
Jimi
Oct 01, 2004, 04:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Newcomer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Raider:
That's just stupid. That doesn't make you any better than any one else,so get off your high horse. I can't argue with people that are ignorant and think they know everythig,so thats all I have to say. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I did not say I was any better than anyone else. I asked the question (even though it was off topic) What have you done for your country?
And just like Bush, you dodged the ?. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes you did .... you certianly did you always do
Newcomer
Oct 01, 2004, 04:25 AM
If you feel so strongly about what Bush is doing I say Go down to your local recruiting station, enlist and request that right after training you want to go to Iraq and support the effort. I am sure they will need replacements to replace the dead soldiers we are losing.
Newcomer
Oct 01, 2004, 04:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jimi:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Newcomer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Raider:
That's just stupid. That doesn't make you any better than any one else,so get off your high horse. I can't argue with people that are ignorant and think they know everythig,so thats all I have to say. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I did not say I was any better than anyone else. I asked the question (even though it was off topic) What have you done for your country?
And just like Bush, you dodged the ?. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes you did .... you certianly did you always do <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think Jimi Needs Glasses LOL
You read into it again. I was asking if anyone had served their country and stating my experience while I was in. I did not see the phrase "I am better than you" Gee maybe I need glasses.
Jimi
Oct 01, 2004, 04:29 AM
And what was your question ????
Also ... since 9/11 this country has not been attacked.... the fight is elsewhere..... but Raider is right ... the level of intelligence drops when people feel they know more because of any reason .... or that serving your country makes you better or worse ... or smarter ... but again .... you do always think you are Newcomer
Jimi
Oct 01, 2004, 04:31 AM
[/QUOTE]
I think Jimi Needs Glasses LOL
You read into it again. I was asking if anyone had served their country and stating my experience while I was in. I did not see the phrase "I am better than you" Gee maybe I need glasses.[/QUOTE]
ya do not need to use a phrase to make a point.....
But I forgot ... you are always right ... and when you arent ... you remove your post
Jimi
Oct 01, 2004, 04:31 AM
[/QUOTE]
I think Jimi Needs Glasses LOL
You read into it again. I was asking if anyone had served their country and stating my experience while I was in. I did not see the phrase "I am better than you" Gee maybe I need glasses.[/QUOTE]
ya do not need to use a phrase to make a point.....
But I forgot ... you are always right ... and when you arent ... you remove your post
Newcomer
Oct 01, 2004, 04:35 AM
You must need glasses because this is the 3rd time I ask the question. what have you done for your country?
And there you go again reading into it again. I never said I ws smarter than anyone else. Jimi where do you come up with this stuff? OMG Whatever you are taking I want some.
As I started in this thread my statments are IMO
Look up opinion in the dictionary, It does not say one that is smarter than the rest.
I have removed 1 post in all my time moderating and it was my own post that I made a Joke about you needing to be on Zoloft. and you felt offended so I removed it.
BTW I am done with this thread so write what you must about me. See you after Debate 2
Raider
Oct 01, 2004, 04:43 AM
Yes Newcomer you did imply that... You don't seem to be able to see the big picture. Who the hell are you to question what I have done for my country! I have stated my military service here before and I had lost friends on 9/11. So why don't you get over your self and try to stick to the topic and the facts.
Jimi
Oct 01, 2004, 04:52 AM
If serving in the military is required to have knowledge of a thing .... as suggested in this thread .... I guess Clinton was a total idiot ....
Bush served .. you can disagree with how .. we can argue if he served enough ... but he served ....
Kerry ...we can argue if he did all he said he did .... and BTW I know he exagerated what he did ... all guys over the age of 45 do this .... But he served ....
Clinton did everything he could to get out of the draft ... I guess he wasnt presidential material ...
And if your base your debate on what you did ..... a guy I know sat on the 98th parallel just after the war in Korea ... he shot a few enemies and he was shot at .... He should be Prestident then I guess... cept for those 5 felony convictions... pre3 strikes
Newcomer
Oct 01, 2004, 04:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Raider:
Yes Newcomer you did imply that... You don't seem to be able to see the big picture. Who the hell are you to question what I have done for my country! I have stated my military service here before and I had lost friends on 9/11. So why don't you get over your self and try to stick to the topic and the facts. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well I will post this 1 more in closing. Raider if I offended you with that serving country question I am sincerely sorry. I am not here to make enemies and I did not see your prior post of your military service. I respect you for your service to our country and am sorry for your loss of friends in 9/11. I guess I got off topic and admitted that earlier. I just get upset to see those kids dying and not being able to do anything about it to bring them home. I truely feel for their famlies and what they are going through.
Jimi
Oct 01, 2004, 04:54 AM
Oh and BTW .... tank you Newcomer for your service ... and Raider for yours ....
I will tell you I had my papers in in 1973 but since the war was over...I was turned down and got married instead .... looking back ...I should have fought harder to get in
I guess I cant have an opinion .... I didnt serve
Jimi
Oct 01, 2004, 04:56 AM
Newcomer .....
there is a plan .... Kerry just ignores it ... we did turn over the government to the Iraqis before we said we would ... we are pushing for elections... The Iraqi Prime minister is excited over the progress...... but just like Kerry ... people ignore that ...
Oh and in 1971 Kerry had a "great exit plan for Viet Nam" where he said we would need to displace 3,000 loyal Vietnamese and the North would welcome back all else ...that if we left no great blood shed would happen ... so I guess we ignore the genocide ... or the displacement of the Hmoungs that we now are still taking in... the millions of millions murdered and the millions of refugees that took place when we did as he wished
I trust Bush here.... I have never trusted Kerry .... he has done NOTHING to change my mind
MadScot
Oct 01, 2004, 04:58 AM
I'll admit I was wrong in my earlier post. Even Pat Sajak couldn't spin this into a win for Bush. Bush looked even worse than Nixon in the Kennedy debate. He reminded me of Humphrey Bogart playing Commander Queeg in the Caine Mutiny the only thing he was missing was the metal marbles. Guess Bush lost them somewhere near Baghdad.
Let's take a peak at what some of the spinners had to say.
Joe Scarborough: âAs far as the debate goes, I don't see how anybody could look at this debate and not score this a very clear win on points for John Kerry." "It was John Kerry's best performance ever."
Kate O'Beirne: "I thought the President was repetitive and reactive."
Mark Halperin: âThe president was remarkably angry seeming"
Milbank and VandeHei: "Bush appeared perturbed when Kerry leveled some of his charges, scowling at times and looking away in apparent disgust at others."
Mort Kondracke: âThis is the President's turf, this is the place that the President is supposed to dominate, terror and the war in Iraq. I don't think he really dominated tonight. I think Kerry looked like a commander-in-chief.â
Jonah Goldberg, National Review Online's the Corner: "The Bush campaign miscalculated on having the first night be foreign policy night."
Bob Schieffer: âThe President was somewhat defensive in the beginningâ âKerry got off to a very good start.â
Mark Shields: "The President showed a few times obvious anger"
Bill Kristol, Weekly Standard: âI think Kerry did pretty well tonight, he was forceful and articulate.â
Andrea Mitchell: âThis is the toughest weâve ever seen John Kerry. He attacked the very core of the Presidentâs popularity. Heâs basically saying, who do you believe?â (MSNBC)
Tim Russert: âTonight he seemed to find his voice for the Democratic view of the world.â
Fred Barnes on FNC: "Kerry did very well and we will have a Presidential race from here on out."
The polls echo this although I don't know how Bush got as many votes as he did. Some people refuse to see the truth.
ABC POLL ON WHO WON DEBATE: Kerry: 45 - Bush: 36 - Tie: 17
CNN/GALLUP POLL ON WHO WON DEBATE: Kerry: 53 - Bush: 37
CBS POLL ON WHO WON DEBATE: Kerry: 44 - Bush: 26 - Tie: 30
Jimi
Oct 01, 2004, 05:01 AM
Oh look ... Madscot is posting polls the things he trusts ... only when he agrees ... lol
Newcomer
Oct 01, 2004, 05:03 AM
Jimi, Yes even you in this great country of ours is entitled to an opinion. And YLP is like its own little country and I commend you for trying to get together the recall of the current board. Having to live with water problems is a real B#$@^ and I hope that it gets resolved. I have read out here on the boards Jimi that you are a good guy and I imagine you are and would lend a hand to someone in need if needed and that is a rare quality these days. I am sure that if I met you in person things would be different. We would probably throw a few jabs LOL and then sit down and have a cool drink. I hate arguing. It really sucks.
MadScot
Oct 01, 2004, 05:10 AM
Jimi the twister at it again. You really have trouble understanding what people say don't you Jimi.
"The polls echo this although I don't know how Bush got as many votes as he did. Some people refuse to see the truth."
I'll see if I can spell it out for you. I don't agree with these polls they don't reflect what
really happened Kerry mopped up the floor with Bush. Not one single Republican spinner would impune his intelligence by saying Bush won this. They wouldn't even say it was a draw for fear of losing any credibility they have.
Jimi
Oct 01, 2004, 05:22 AM
Mad .... you post polls that you like ... and hammer on polls you dislike ... alot of people do this ... Rush and you have this in common ....
I read well and also understand intentions...
I never saw the deate ... when I listened ... I felt both were poor debaters.... All Kerry did was repeat a few lines that have changed since 3 days ago ... all bush said was this is hard work .... both would have flunked my debate class ....
nothing of value came out .... I was disappointed ... I listened to this instead of the GIANTS
BigBadBear
Oct 01, 2004, 05:13 PM
Well,what can I say about Our Great President and His Great Debate that even you do not already know for yourself? Other than that now you know what somebody who is not ready or deserving of high office looks like when he is caught unprepared without facts or good arguments and nothing but a few tired talking points to fall back on.
And you know who I mean. So stop saying that!!
George W. showed last night why he was the next Winfred Churchill last night, all right. It was not just that he won the debate so overwhelpingly, but the way he deafly got across the message about sending mixed messages. It was another cakewalk, just like his triumph in Iraq has been a cakewalk if you do not count all the dying and blood and the like.
Of course he was tired from comforting hurricane victims by saying reassuring things like "Every time I see Adam, all he does is talk about oranges. His hair is kind of orange.
Kerry forgot Poland! Our Great President did not forget Poland! But Kerry forgot Poland! That is liable to turn Poland into one of our enemies like the country formerly known as France but now known as Freedom.
How can we get along with a President who insults our Allies?
"The enemy understands a free Iraq will be a major defeat in their ideology of hatred. That's why they're fighting so vociferously," said Our Great President. I do not think John Kerry and the Democrats understand that at all.
And was it not sly for George W. to say o so innocently "I don't think we want to get to how he's going to pay for all these promises." Bravo, George W.! It took the wind out of Kerrrrry¹s sales and I am sure not many people listening to the debate thought making Ken Lay pay taxes again was any sort of answer to how we would pay for the firemen or police or port inspectors or chemical plant security or nuclear plant security or any of the other unimportant fripperies. After all, Our Great President has given us Homely Secretary of Security Tom Ridge and Homely Secretary Ridge has given us all a terrific color chart and duck tape. If that does not make crybabies in America feel safer I do not know what will.
But instead Democraps like Kerry want to fuss about "loose nuclear materials in the world" like that is some sort of a real problem. Do they not know that Our Great President brought the AQ Khan network to justice by not saying anything when the good Muslins in Pakistan gave AQ Khan a pardon? And after all, it is not like the material AQ Khan is loose anymore, since we know it is in Iran and North Korea. Wa La!
"So I went to the United Nations. I didn't need anybody to tell me to go to the United Nations. I decided to go there myself," said Our Great President. Now that is decisive leadership, whether or not it is true. He did not need to go to the U of N but he did anyway even though they are irrelevant! It is their own fault now that the United Nations are not enjoying the fighting in Iraq like they could of. But instead they wanted to send Hans Blicks to inspect for the WMDs which turned out not to be there anyway.
And yes, George W. had a right to get angry and say "of course I know Osama bin Laden attacked us. I know that." He does know that, even if he does not mention Osama¹s name, and I am sure he is looking for him whenever he has a chance. It is just that he is distracted telling widows how much he loves them, and other hard work.
Likewise when Our Great President also said, "Osama bin Laden isn't going to determine how we defend ourselves. Osama bin Laden doesn't get to decide. The American people decide." I am sure everybody out there in America listening to his words in living rooms or flowerbeds outside living room windows understood what a terrible idea it would be to put Osama Bin Laden in charge of American defense.
Thank goodness we have got Donald Rumfilled, who has not been fired yet, as Superb Secretary of Defensive instead of Osama Bin Laden. Otherwise we might waste our money on badly thought out schemes that are ineffective and not needed that would not make America safer.
So in seclusion, let me say vote for Our Great President and for the Republicans for which he stands. Amen. And remember, as George W. said we cannot afford a President who sends mexed missages in a time when we are faced with vociferous enemies.
Or else.
And I mean that!
Jimi
Oct 01, 2004, 05:19 PM
I watched the debate ....
Bush did look flustered ... why shouldnt he ... did you hear the lies ???
I would have been
and yes I know sarcasm ... lol
Coldwolf
Oct 01, 2004, 05:38 PM
The tube was tuned to CSPAN with CNN on PIP, for the debates last night----CSPAN maintained a split screen throughout, was able to see the smirk that never left Bush's face, PIP with CNN tuned in showed little split screen time, hiding the childish responses of boy Bush most of the time, I still believe that George Bush has a Karl bug in his ear telling him what to say as demonstrated by his errs and ahhs. I recall the adverse commentary regarding Gore's sighs during the 2000 presidential debates, last night the notable bane was Bush's smirks. The spin by the Bush supporters post debate became comical as they attempted to put a positive face on a less than juvenile performance by George. Bush did not even measure up to a third grader's show and tell presentation, far less than to be expected from a first term president. My opinion is that a man with such a stubborn stance and little understanding of the world's problems should be cutting brush down on the ranch, not making life and death decisions that affect my future!
Coldwolf
Oct 01, 2004, 05:45 PM
President Bush sent the United States to war under false pretenses.
He is pursuing a failing strategy in Iraq.
He is permitting war profiteering by Halliburton and other corporate supporters.
He has undermined the system of alliances needed for national security.
He continues to politically exploit the 9-11 tragedy.
He continues to obscure the history of pre-9-11 events.
He fails to adequately support U.S. troops.
He has weakened the U.S. by over committing the military.
He is pursuing a war which is, in many ways, immoral.
He continues to support efforts to undermine U.S. elections and democratic institutions.
He is failing to protect homeland security
He is not adequately pursuing serious threats from weapons of mass destruction.
His policies permit and encourage the abuse of prisoners.
His irresponsible tax cuts are bankrupting the government.
His failed economic policies continue to undermine our economic strength.
He continues to fail to address the problem of unemployment.
His policies are consistently biased in favor of the very rich.
He continues to favor wealthy supporters over environmental interests.
He systematically misleads the public about the nature of his policies.
He stubbornly remains committed to failing policies.
Coldwolf
Oct 01, 2004, 05:45 PM
President Bush sent the United States to war under false pretenses.
He is pursuing a failing strategy in Iraq.
He is permitting war profiteering by Halliburton and other corporate supporters.
He has undermined the system of alliances needed for national security.
He continues to politically exploit the 9-11 tragedy.
He continues to obscure the history of pre-9-11 events.
He fails to adequately support U.S. troops.
He has weakened the U.S. by over committing the military.
He is pursuing a war which is, in many ways, immoral.
He continues to support efforts to undermine U.S. elections and democratic institutions.
He is failing to protect homeland security
He is not adequately pursuing serious threats from weapons of mass destruction.
His policies permit and encourage the abuse of prisoners.
His irresponsible tax cuts are bankrupting the government.
His failed economic policies continue to undermine our economic strength.
He continues to fail to address the problem of unemployment.
His policies are consistently biased in favor of the very rich.
He continues to favor wealthy supporters over environmental interests.
He systematically misleads the public about the nature of his policies.
He stubbornly remains committed to failing policies.
Raider
Oct 01, 2004, 05:51 PM
Your getting pretty good at spreading lies, your liberal buddies will be proud.
MadScot
Oct 01, 2004, 06:33 PM
I don't know who looked like the biggest idiot Bush last night or the Republicans on TV today trying to spin Bush's mumbling into a win. Bush was so bad it made me wonder if he was back on the bottle. His hesitation and sluring of words reminded me of every alcoholic I've known.
Coldwolf
Oct 01, 2004, 07:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Raider:
Your getting pretty good at spreading lies, your liberal buddies will be proud. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Point out a lie in what I said. I can debate.
Unlike the mumble king.
MadScot
Oct 01, 2004, 08:05 PM
My favorite line was when Bush said "I'm trying to put a leash on them. " when refering to his daughters. The guy can't even control his daughters and he wants us to believe he can win the war on Al Queda.
MadScot
Oct 01, 2004, 08:37 PM
Then there was the profound
"Well, I think -- listen, I fully agree that one should shift tactics, and we will, in Iraq. Our commanders have got all the flexibility to do what is necessary to succeed."
This sums up the whole problem with me. Over 1,000 dead almost 10,000 wounded and he finally thinks it may be time to shift tactics. They blame terrorists coming in from other countries for the deaths over the last year. Yet he continues to talk about sending in more troops if the commanders want them. Will somebody wake him up and inform him if we don't send enough troops in to secure the borders the terrorists will continue to come across the border. At the least send enough troops to secure the roadways into the country. Cut off the supply line to the insurgents already there.
I didn't go to West Point but isn't this like strategy 101.
They made a deal with the militia that they had to disarm and leave the city and they were allowed to leave without disarming. There they were out in the open easy pickens breaking the agreement and we just let them keep going. And Bush is going to trust the people who let that happen to continue to call the shots. Bush is simply unfit for the task at hand.
Coldwolf
Oct 02, 2004, 11:25 AM
Mr. Kerry definitely won the first debate. It'll be a miracle if Mr. Bush shows for the next two. After Thursday's debate, the choice for President of the United States couldn't be any clearer to anyone who truly cares about this country.
Because of the rules of the debate, Mr. Kerry was merely using a popgun - and Mr. Bush folded like a cheap lawn chair. If Mr. Kerry would've been able to ask direct questions and have direct rebuttal, Mr. Bush would've had a nervous breakdown. There's no way he could handle it. There is no way Mr. Bush could stand up to anyone to negotiate peace, security, and cooperation with any credibility. He presented no defensible reason why we hit Iraq - repeating his lame message over and over again even though Mr. Kerry cited the 9/11 commission finding that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. No wonder Mr. Bush gives millions of people further reason to hate America - and fear it.
We need someone tough to negotiate our country out of this mess - not a weakling. We need truly democratic and wise leadership at all levels of government, or we will cease to exist as a nation. Why? Because we are at our most divided and our leadership is the weakest in history. We do not need a bunch of yes-men saying 'Good Job Mr. President'. We need big-picture people. Right now.
Anybody who thinks Mr. Bush won it either didn't see the debate (and may be relying on corporate media or right wing friends to tell them about it), or they actually saw it and they're lying. Perhaps they are as ignorant as Mr. Bush, influenced by a family member, delusional, or scared. Or maybe they've been misled into thinking that he is some kind of God-inspired patriot.
But that's still no excuse. Perhaps they simply do not care enough about this country to make the sacrifices needed to get us back on track. One of those sacrifices is admitting they have followed the wrong leader for four years - a leader who simply does not believe in doing the right thing.
Another sacrifice is making the time available to fully research and evaluate everything the Bush Administration has stood for. To remain ignorant of what they have done to harm our world reputation, quality of life, and security is true dereliction of duty. If Mr. Bush's supporters would only get off their duffs and look about themselves - they would find out who the real flip-flopper is. They would honestly find George W. Bush not fit to be our leader and vote accordingly.
Can America be saved? Yes.
Think for yourself. Vote for your Life this election. Make the Right Choice.
Choose John Kerry for President.
Coldwolf
Oct 02, 2004, 11:44 AM
It's hard to pick a favorite, given that Kerry mostly wiped the floor with Bush, who alternately repeated vacuous, scripted talking points and looked petulant. A lot of people, me included, loved the part where Kerry pointed out in lucid, clear English, that it was Al Quaeda that attacked the United States, not Iraq. Others might say it was when our famously lazy president uttered the phrase "it's hard work" for the umpteenth time.
But for my money, the standout highlight was Bush's rebuttal to Kerry's response to this question: "As president, what would you do specifically, in addition to or differently, to increase the homeland security of the United States than what President Bush is doing?"
Kerry outlined a lengthy list of really basic, obvious safeguards that have yet to be implemented on the homeland security front.
Then the big Bush gaffe:
"I don't think we want to get to how he's going to pay for all these promises. It's like a huge tax gap" (http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/2004/la-093004debatetext,1,34596.story?coll=la-home-headlines&vote14465898=1)
At the risk of sounding like Bush himself, say what? Now let us get this straight: Our safety is on the back burner so that Bush can give a big tax cut to rich people and pay for a completely unnecessary war. Okay, er, got it. I encourage all of you to spread this gaffe around the Internet and send to every media outlet you can.
And we have to add that Bush's later contention, that "we've increased funding for dealing with nuclear proliferation, about 35 percent since I've been the president," is a flat-out lie. According to FactCheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=271), "The Washington Post reported Oct. 1 that Bush proposed a 13 percent cut in his first budget as President -- about $116 million. Much of the increases since then have been added by Congress, the Post reported."
I'm grateful that, for the moment anyway, much of the mainstream media seems to be more or less calling it as it was.
concerned
Oct 02, 2004, 05:29 PM
Raider has a nerve calling other people stupid and ignorant.
Raider
Oct 02, 2004, 05:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by concerned:
Raider has a nerve calling other people stupid and ignorant. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What was insinuated in that statement that you are referring to "was stupid". As for not wanting to argue with someone that is ignorant, that' true I don't. Ignorant : lacking knowledge , unaware,uninformed. So I'm now done arguing with you about this.
Raider
Oct 02, 2004, 05:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Raider:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by concerned:
Raider has a nerve calling other people stupid and ignorant. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What was insinuated in that statement that you are referring to "was stupid". As for not wanting to argue with someone that is ignorant, that's true I don't. Ignorant : lacking knowledge , unaware,uninformed. So I'm now done arguing with you about this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Jimi
Oct 02, 2004, 07:11 PM
Dang Raider ... I cant believe you said that .... I thought it was me http://oakhurstforums.com/icon/eusa_dance.gif
MadScot
Oct 02, 2004, 07:25 PM
You have to understand concerned these conservatives are having to deal with the failure of their man Bush. It's not easy when you see someone you believe in floundering so badly. It makes them angry and they lash out at everybody who doesn't share their distorted viewpoint.
Jimi
Oct 02, 2004, 07:33 PM
you have to understand Raider ....wait there is no understaning Mr Hypocrite MadScot
MadScot
Oct 02, 2004, 07:55 PM
http://oakhurstforums.com/icon/rolleyes2.gif http://oakhurstforums.com/icon/no.gif
Raider
Oct 02, 2004, 08:26 PM
The Problem With John F. Kerry
Posted: on Home Of The Politically Incorrect Truth
Welcome to my post-Presidential debate analysis. First of all, let me say that virtually EVERYTHING we knew about these two men BEFORE the debate was confirmed AFTER the debate was over.
John Kerry is a FLIP-FLOPPER. John Kerry is a good debater. John Kerry is a believer in the United Nations determining if and when the United States Of America can defend itself, and that the USA must pass some sort of "global test" before we can "act unilaterally" to defend ourselves.
The PROBLEM with John Kerry is that he talks out of BOTH SIDES of his mouth. As President Bush stated during the debate, the ONLY consistent thing about John Kerry is his INCONSISTENCY.
John Kerry has characterized the 30+ nations who are assisting the United States in Iraq the "coalition of the duped", the "coalition of the coerced", and the "coalition of the bribed".
John Kerry states that the USA "acted unilaterally" when the coalition liberated Iraq.
John Kerry has stated that the Iraqi War was the "wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time".
I am sure that Great Britain, Australia, Poland, Italy, Japan, South Korea, and the other 25 or so nations who are presently in Iraq are very GRATIFIED to know what John Kerry thinks of them and their mission and their sacrifice.
I am sure that Al Qaeda and the Iranian and Syrian-funded "insurgents" who are presently wreaking havoc in Iraq are very GRATIFIED to know that a man who wants to be President Of The United States is providing them with the WILL and the INCENTIVE and the MORAL SUPPORT to keep on murdering innocent Iraqi adults and children, killing U.S. soldiers, blowing up buildings, and kidnapping and beheading civilian contractors.
Somehow, despite all that he has stated about the coalition of 30+ nations, John Kerry states that if he is elected President, he is going to "build bridges" with the nations who HE believes don't like the USA anymore, and that he will somehow be able to put together a "grand coalition" of nations to secure and rebuild Iraq. I can see it now..........the French and Germans and Russians will be FLOCKING to the White House to BEG President Kerry to be a part of the Iraqi coalition. These so-called "allies" of ours will suddenly offer to POUR money and military personnel and equipment into Iraq at the request of President John F. Kerry. Then the other 30+ countries who are presently in Iraq will just have to bite the bullet and forgive John for his condescending attitude towards them.
Then we have John Kerry, "Mr. Coalition" and "Mr. World Global Test", criticizing President Bush for trying to solve the North Korea nuclear weapons situation PEACEFULLY by getting OTHER NATIONS involved (like China, Russia, South Korea, and Japan). Kerry thinks that the USA should negotiate with North Korea ALONE, like the Clinton administration did. Apparently Mr. Kerry forgot what happened when Jimmy Carter and Madeline Albright went over to North Korea and negotiated a "settlement" with Kim Jong Il. The North Koreans accepted our billions of dollars in aid, let us build them a couple of nice nuclear power plants, then basically told the USA to PACK SAND. Mr. Kerry wants to DO THE SAME THING again, and ignore the FACT that it is CHINA and RUSSIA that have much more LEVERAGE with North Korea than we do, and it is a COALITION of nations that will have to resolve this situation.
So, the bottom line is this. No matter WHAT President Bush says or does, John Kerry will take the OPPOSITE POSITION during this election season, whether he believes in what he says or not.
The problem with John Kerry is that he has no CORE BELIEFS and no FOUNDATION to build his CORE VALUES on. John Kerry's positions on virtually ANY topic are based on political expediency and political expediency ALONE.
John Kerry is the TRUE "Manchurian Candidate".
Vevr very true. http://oakhurstforums.com/icon/yes.gif
Curious
Oct 03, 2004, 04:28 AM
Do you remember in the debate when George Bush said, "let me finish?" At that time he had 15 seconds to go before the first warning light, the moderator had not interupted him, Senator had not interupted him. Who was he talking to?
Many believe he was talking to the person who was feeding answers to his ear piece - probably Karl Rove.
Would this man of "integrity and strength" cheat? You bet!
Jimi
Oct 03, 2004, 04:43 AM
wow .... what orface did you pull that from ??
Newcomer
Oct 03, 2004, 04:47 AM
I Videoed the debate. And yes it happened.
Not that he may have been talking to someone in the ear piece but the event happened.
Jimi
Oct 03, 2004, 04:54 AM
i know what he said .... but I also know what is imagined
MadScot
Oct 03, 2004, 05:01 AM
The problem with Bush is he can't be honest. Just like this BS about needing permission. Just like the WMDs it's another Bush lie. Here's what Kerry said:
"No president, though all of American history, has ever ceded, and nor would I, the right to preempt in any way necessary to protect the United States of America.
But if and when you do it, Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons."
Bush twists this into needing permission before we attack. People are not stupid they see through the Bush lie. All Bush does is make himself look even further detached from reality.
Raider
Oct 03, 2004, 09:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MadScot:
But if and when you do it, Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you _did it _for legitimate reasons."
Bush twists this into needing permission before we attack. People are not stupid they see through the Bush lie. All Bush does is make himself look even further detached from reality. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Kerry said in the debate that the United States had the right to take preemptive action abroad if it "passes the global test, where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons." What do you think is ment by "if it passes the global test"
What if it doesn't pass the global test then what?
Jimi
Oct 03, 2004, 09:56 AM
well I guess that means if France wants us to .... there were/are 30 nations supporting us .... not in might because alot have none ... but in spirit ...
I guess we needed Iran, Lybia and France
MadScot
Oct 03, 2004, 10:49 AM
I posted exactly what Kerry said. You twist it just like Bush. People are smart enough to see the difference between what he said and what you are saying I don't need to point out the difference.
BTW when we turned over "control" to Illawi Bush made a statement that we would leave Iraq if Illawi wanted. I thought it odd that Bush thought he needed Illawi's permission to stay in Iraq.
Jimi
Oct 03, 2004, 10:57 AM
god your just .... well I wont say ..... he freed Iraq.... he set helped set up a new government and is right now helping set up elections ...
And then since he trusted the new goernment said he would leave if they wished .... he was not asking permission to stay ... he was bowing to authority ... and BTW .... the New Government asked them to stay to fight off the foriegn invaders .... wow ... do you read ??? and are you registered ? And no one twisted a thing ..... Raider quoted what you said and asked you what you think he meant.... you now reply by not answering .... you emulate well ....
Wow .... do you read ?
concerned
Oct 03, 2004, 04:37 PM
I understand what you were saying now Raider. I took it wrong. Sorry.
Raider
Oct 03, 2004, 04:39 PM
Thank you.
Coldwolf
Oct 05, 2004, 11:54 AM
For me, watching the first Bush/Kerry debate was more painful, more stressful, and more spiritually draining than watching even the most gruesome hostage decapitation video. Performing cranial self-trepanation with a hand-crank drill would have been soothing in comparison.
Don't get me wrong. It's not that Kerry did poorly. If the polls are anything to go by, he took a few giant steps towards the White House. And as an added bonus, Preznit Dubya graced us with a spectacularly fumbling flame-out wreck of a performance. He failed to live up to even the lowest of low expectations. Seventy million people watched the Preznit drown in his own soft bigotry, and for many of them, it was the first time they'd thought what most thinking people have been thinking for years: "THIS is the President of the United States of America?!" So no, the negative impulses that throbbed through every cell of my being had nothing to do with the debate results.
Here's what bugged me:
First, the sheer, transparent fraud of the exercise. Every aspect of this debate, from the snap-together format to the pointedly vague questions to the anal retentive rulebook, seemed designed to slap a thick coat of whitewash over some basic, ugly truths. It was pure political kabuki, and knowing what we know about the conservative movement -- its hidden agendas, its evolution, its thinkers, its sneering deceit, its absolutist Will to Power dogma, its unbridled lust for power, its contempt for the inconvenience of democracy, and the myriad, sinister ways in which it has inoculated itself against that particular threat -- kabuki seems ill-suited to the problems of our time.
I know, I know... it's not as though Kerry had a choice. Part of the Bush Cabal's evil, idiot genius is that they've been so ambitious in their criminality, and screwed things up so completely, that if Kerry were to address the full extent of their negligence and malfeasance, he would be mocked as a hysterical, alarmist nut-job. In our increasingly controlled corporate media, as in the government under Dubya, the only thing the truth will set you free from is your job... or your life.
But these are topics for a different message. Or thirty different messages. Or a series of books few people will buy and nobody will read. Let's get back to the issue at hand, and what was, for me, the debate's second most bothersome element: the inevitable backlash. Messianic personality cults never take kindly to seeing their guru publicly humiliated, no matter how big a phoney that guru might be. Watching Dubya die on stage, you had to know that revenge was a certainty; from the spin-doctors, from the corporate and conservative media, from the vast and well-funded conservative movement apparat. They did not disappoint.
It began immediately after the debate, when the Team Bush retreated to lick their wounds, hoping the networks and cable news outlets would do their work for them. Hilariously, the initial corporate media consensus was that the debate had been "a draw." Simultaneously, they tried to lessen the impact of Dubya's cretinous performance by backing off their pre-debate contention that this was "one of the most important debates in recent history." In the aftermath, they adopted a more lukewarm tone: "feh⦠it's no big deal (http://publish.nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/rate/125456/%3C?php%20echo), really."
It would take subsequent polls, showing that two thirds of the American people thought Kerry walked away with it, to put a clamp on all the Brokaws and Jenningses and Aaron Brownses' wagging tongues. That they even tried to get away with this flagrant level of denial at all tells you everything you need to know about the bankruptcy of our society's most powerful informational middle-men.
With Team Dubya "unavailable for comment" and Big Media hobbled by unspinnable reality, the task of undoing the damage done was left to the front ranks of the conservative movement: talk radio, right-wing bloggers, and undeniably partisan media like Fox News and the Drudge Report, where objectivity is neither enforced nor expected.
Fox kicked things off in style with a disinformation double-shot. First, they ran a story (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1319075,00.html) attributing to Kerry such ridiculous quotes as "Didn't my nails and cuticles look great? Women should like me! I do manicures." and "I'm metrosexual -- he's a cowboy." Within hours, they would run another story, this time featuring quotes from an organization called Communists for Kerry (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134268,00.html).
The first story was a complete fabrication, and has been retracted. The second story neglected to mention that Communists for Kerry is, in fact, a Republican activist group. The omission was corrected, but not before the story made a minor splash on the right-wing Under-web.
And yet Dan Rather remains journalism's Enemy Number One, a target of relentless official opprobrium, for being duped into telling true lies.
It was on the Under-web, too, that one could find the " target="sd">lunatic (<A HREF=) http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=12967_A_Better_View_of_Jacketgate ( <A HREF=)" target="sd">frenzy</a> generated by Kerry's devious, rule-breaking treachery in the form of a mysterious object ( [URL=http://www.dailyrecycler.com/blog/2004/10/winners-never-cheat.html]http://www.dailyrecycler.com/blog/2004/10/winners-never-cheat.html</A>) -- a cheat sheet, perhaps?! -- that he seemed to smuggle into the debate, against the agreed-upon rules.
Never mind that anybody able to review the actual footage (as opposed to grainy jpegs clipped from a realmedia file) could clearly see that the mystery object was a pen. Never mind that even the partisan Fox News and the New York Post (http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/31273.htm) agree with this verdict. Never mind that the video clip being used by right-wingers to attack Kerry actually shows Dubya taking some sort of pamphlet (http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/fwd/20041001/capt.fwd101b20041001jpg.jpg) from his jacket, unfolding it, and placing it on his lectern. Never mind that there is both video and audio evidence that advisors were feeding the Preznit lines through an ear-piece (http://publish.nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/rate/125456/%3C?php%20echo). None of this matters to "the base."
Time and time again, conservative eyes see things that aren't there, and are blind to the obvious. Even those few Bush fanatics who could bring themselves to accept the reality of "the pen scenario" still felt it presented them with a valid distraction from their candidate's shockingly bad performance. "This changes nothing! Kerry broke the rules! Kerry cheated! Kerry brought a PEN!" They are the living embodiment of the "sore loser" concept.
But perhaps I'm is being too harsh. If I had watched my candidate being eviscerated before millions on live TV -- causing an overnight evaporation (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=MEFOHATDWJOW0CRBAEZSF EY?type=topNews&storyID=6396440) of a substantial pre-debate lead in the polls -- perhaps I, too, would be suffering from sympathetic brain damage.
Combing through the entire ninety minute transcript for errors, lies, and bullpoo would take too long, and be no fun to read. Nevertheless, I've has put together some general notes and observations on select moments from the debate. You can view the video at C-span.org (http://www.c-span.org/), or read the transcript at Truthout.com (http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/100204Y.shtml).
<blockquote><LI>This first debate was slated to concentrate on foreign policy, the Preznit's alleged "strong point". Kerry lost the coin toss, allowing Bush to choose who answered the first question. He chose Kerry. Big mistake. Kerry kicked things off with a withering attack on Bush's record, putting Bush on the defensive from the get-go. He was stuck in Nixon mode for the entirety of the debate.
<LI>During his rebuttal to Kerry's opening answer, after thanking the University of Florida for providing the venue and mumbling a prayer for Florida's hurricane victims, the first words out of Dubya's mouth were: "September the 11th changed how America must look at the world." It was one of a number of stock phrases that first made their appearance in his opening comments. Others include such gems as "seventy-five percent of known al Qaeda leaders have been brought to justice," and "we're spreading freedom around the world," and "the Taliban are no longer in power," and "ten million people have registered to vote in Afghanistan," and (my own personal favorite) "America and the world are safer" because of his illegal, businessman's war-of-first-resort in Iraq. All in his first rebuttal. All manifestly false.
<LI>In response to his first question, about whether he felt Kerry being elected would increase the chance of a terrorist attack on American soil, Bush replied: "No, I don't believe it's going to happen. I believe I'm going to win, because the American people know I know how to lead. I've shown the American people I know how to lead." Bush would frequently return to this insistence on his ability to lead, despite no other nation in the world being willing to follow him.
<LI>Dubya again: "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard." He would return to this theme eleven (coun't em!) times throughout the debate, in increasingly petulant tones. Hey, if he can't handle the workload, why the hell did he apply for the job?!
<LI>On the failure to capture Osama bin Laden, Kerry managed to sneak a domestic policy issue into the foreign policy debate: "Unfortunately, he escaped in the mountains of Tora Bora. We had him surrounded. But we didn't use American forces, the best trained in the world, to go kill him. The president relied on Afghan warlords and he outsourced that job too."
<LI>It was at this early point in the debate that the Preznit's hopelessly coke-frazzled synapses began to misfire, causing his face to dissolve into a wincing, twitching, outward manifestation of the pharmaceutically-suppressed chaos taking place inside his skull.
<LI>Bush making pathetic, irrelevant, child-like excuses for invading Iraq: "My opponent looked at the same intelligence I looked at and declared in 2002 that Saddam Hussein was a grave threat." This in-depth (really in-depth) article (http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041003/ZNYT03/410030427) on how the Bush cabal embraced questionable intelligence, ignored solid information and peddled outright lies to the world puts the lie to that ridiculous notion.
<LI>Bush: "You cannot lead if you send mexed missages (http://www.dubyaspeak.com/audio.shtml)⦠mixed messages." Freeping ing perfect.
<LI>Early in the debate, Bush begins to experience extended blackouts during which he can no longer speak. He then begins snapping at people who aren't there (http://publish.nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/rate/125456/%3C?php%20echo).
<LI>Bush: "There will be elections in January. We're spending reconstruction money. And our alliance is strong. That's the plan for victory." Gee, nice plan there guy. I think you need to have a chat with your CIA (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/16/iraq/main643836.shtml) before trying to implement it, though. "And when Iraq is free, America will be more secure." But I thought you said we were already more secure! Is that a flip-flop? What gives?!
<LI>In response to Kerry's accusation that Bush had done nothing to improve the state of homeland security, listing all the Preznit's unkept promises re: border, infrastructure, commercial and industrial transport, Bush hilariously retorted: "I don't think we want to get to how he's going to pay for all these promises. It's like a huge tax gap. Anyway, that's for another debate." Two things: First, they were Bush's promises, which he failed to keep. Second, he basically admitted that fighting class-war through tax-cuts to the mega-rich was more important to him than securing the homeland! Damn priceless.
<LI>Dubya's stirring message to the troops: "Thank you for what you're doing. We're standing with you strong. We'll give you all the equipment you need. And we'll get you home as soon as the mission's done, because this is a vital mission."
<LI>Killer Kerry line: "You know, the president's father did not go into Iraq, into Baghdad, beyond Basra. And the reason he didn't is, he said -- he wrote in his book -- because there was no viable exit strategy. And he said our troops would be occupiers in a bitterly hostile land. That's exactly where we find ourselves today. There's a sense of American occupation." Using his own father's words against him? Cold-blooded!
<LI>Another Killer Kerry line, immediately following the one above: "The only building that was guarded when the troops when into Baghdad was the oil ministry. We didn't guard the nuclear facilities. We didn't guard the foreign office, where you might have found information about weapons of mass destruction. We didn't guard the borders." Bush had no answer.
<LI>On Kerry declaring Bush had failed to put together a coalition to go into Iraq: "My opponent says we didn't have any allies in this war. What's he say to Tony Blair? What's he say to Alexander Kwasniewski of Poland? ⦠Well, actually, he forgot Poland." Fact: Over ninety percent of the casualties, and nearly all of the cost, are beings shouldered by Americans. And what's this? Uh-oh! Poland just backed off (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1503&e=1&u=/afp/20041004/ts_afp/iraq_poland_troops_041004153415) on the coalition-of-the-dwindling! Is it possible Kerry was tipped off in advance?
<LI>Unfortunate Abu Ghraib-related Dubya tongue-slip No.1: "Because we achieved such a rapid victory, more of the Saddam loyalists were around. I mean, we thought we'd whip more of them going in."
<LI>Bush on "hard work" and the closest he ever gets to it: "And it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. And I'm optimistic."
<LI>Bush on knowing it's okay to sacrifice American lives for his businessman's war-of-first-resort, because Missy the Medium told him her dead husband said it was okay: "You know, it's hard work to try to love her as best as I can, knowing full well that the decision I made caused her loved one to be in harm's way. I told her after we prayed and teared up and laughed some that I thought her husband's sacrifice was noble and worthy. Because I understand the stakes of this war on terror. I understand that we must find al Qaeda wherever they hide. ⦠Missy understood that. That's what she told me her husband understood."
<LI>Kerry's devastating comeback: "I understand what the president is talking about, because I know what it means to lose people in combat. And the question, is it worth the cost, reminds me of my own thinking when I came back from fighting in that war. And it reminds me that it is vital for us not to confuse the war, ever, with the warriors. That happened before."
<LI>Bush on whether the Iraq experience would make him more or less likely to launch another preemptive war: "I would hope I never have to. I understand how hard it is to commit troops. Never wanted to commit troops. When I was running - when we had the debate in 2000, never dreamt I'd be doing that. But the enemy attacked us, Jim." The truth is that the plan to invade Iraq was set in motion well before 9/11 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A6632-2004Jan10?language=printer)⦠not that they knew 9/11 was coming, of course. That's just crazy talk. And alsoâ¦
<LI>Kerry's devastating response: "Jim, the president just said something extraordinarily revealing and frankly very important in this debate. In answer to your question about Iraq and sending people into Iraq, he just said, the enemy attacked us. Saddam Hussein didn't attack us. Osama bin Laden attacked us. Al Qaeda attacked us. ... That's the enemy that is now in 60 countries, with stronger recruits."
<LI>Bush's response to Kerry's response: "First of all, of course I know Osama bin Laden attacked us. I know that." And the corporate media tried to tell you there weren't any zingers in this debate!
<LI>Unfortunate Abu Ghraib-related Dubya tongue-slip No.2, when he said of his daughters: "I'm trying to put a leash on 'em." Yikes.
<LI>Let's wrap things up with a final comment from President Kerry: "We can remember when President Kennedy in the Cuban missile crisis sent his secretary of state to Paris to meet with DeGaulle. And in the middle of the discussion, to tell them about the missiles in Cuba, he said, Here, let me show you the photos. And DeGaulle waved them off and said, No, no, no, no. The word of the president of the United States is good enough for me. How many leaders in the world today would respond to us, as a result of what we've done, in that way?" I guess it depends on how big the check is, John, but I know what you're saying.</blockquote>
Oh! One last thing: With all the brouhaha over Kerry's multifarious vocabulary and his penchant for public intellectualism, I decided to dig up the biggest words used by either participant during the debate.
The longest word spoken by Kerry was "authoritatively" (16 letters). The longest word spoken by Bush was "systematically" (14 letters).
Bush gets an extra point, however, for using the most pretentious word of the debate: "vociferously" (12 letters). He pronounced it just right, too!
Raider
Oct 05, 2004, 12:08 PM
What a joke. http://oakhurstforums.com/icon/zzz.gif
Sandman
Oct 05, 2004, 01:25 PM
Hey, no matter what your opinion is on the subject, you gotta agree that Coldwolf sure puts a lot of time and thought into this. I wish more Americans can do that. The Republicans, Democrats, Liberals, all of 'em.
Sandman
Oct 07, 2004, 12:47 PM
and this debate continues...
VP Debate 1 of 1 (http://oakhurstforums.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=7666078441&f=5026059742&m=933109276&r=933109276#933109276)
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