Today is also Religious Freedom Day, Jan 16

[Coldwolf]

Religious Freedom Day was ostensibly established to celebrate the passage of Thomas Jefferson-authored Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom on January 16, 1786.


Jefferson's words are particularly poignant these days because Jefferson posited this: "that Almighty God hath created the mind free, and manifested his supreme will that free it shall remain by making it altogether insusceptible of restraint...That to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical...that our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry; that therefore the proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust and emolument, unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion, is depriving him injuriously of those privileges and advantages to which, in common with his fellow citizens, he has a natural right." It's a remarkable document, an amazing expression of the meaning of (and, indeed, the foundation of) the separation between church and state. Indeed, its celebration is rightly noted and all too forgotten, a none-too-prescient exultation of free will as a "natural right."

[Summer]

CW, could you break this down into more understandable terms for us laymen out there? We won't hold you accountable for plagerizing! This is a great "eye opener" response here but takes a lot of interpretation for some of us folks. Please expand .........

[Coldwolf]

I'll give it a shot Summer.

Jefferson said
1.God created man with a free mind.
2.Gods manifest will was that mans mind was unrestrainable
3.That it was sinful and tyranical to force a man to pay for the propagation of ideas and opinions he does not believe in, or finds abhorrant.
4.That our rights as citizens are not dependant on our religious views. No more that they are dependant on our views of physic or geometry; therefor
5.saying he is unworthy of public trust because he doesn't hold a particular religious belief is depriving him of his natural right as a citizen.


In these days of theocratic government, when a man is elected to office because he claims to be a born again christian, and a moral man who will not hang a fish or a cross on his business card cannot get a voice, Jeffersons words are a clear reminder that religious freedom is a freedom both to and from religion.

[concerned]

Well said C.W. Some people say that this is a Christian Nation. Although more citizens may be Christian than any another religion it does not make the U.S a Cristian nation. Jefferson himself was not a Christian but considered himself a Deist. That is a believer in God does not worship Christ. Besides being a nation of one religion defies the Constitution.

[Summer]

and a moral man who will not hang a fish or a cross on his business card cannot get a voice,
CW, your response was excellent but could you please expand on the above phrase? I guess I am so dense I need "tutoring"! LOL Also, Concerned, I really appreciate your input! You know, if you listen (and read) very carefully you can learn so much on these threads. And in the most unlikely places!

[Coldwolf]

a moral man who will not hang a fish or a cross on his business card cannot get a voice


The fish (IXYOE) symbol and the cross being identifiers of "born again" Christians, and those symbols being used by both men and women to try to convince people in business and in politics that because they are "born again", they have a monopoly on morality and honesty. Being a christian make one no more moral than the man standing next to him, the Jew, the Muslim, the agnostic, the Deist. It also makes him no less moral. We saw in the last 2 elections, and particularly in the 2000 election that the churches overwhelmingly backed Bush, because he said he was a Christian. When I was in seminary we had a little saying, "I'm no better that the lowest sinner, only forgiven". I haven't heard that in a long time.

[Yosemite_Wolf]

When I was in seminary we had a little saying, "I'm no better that the lowest sinner, only forgiven". I haven't heard that in a long time.


Now if only the politicians were think that way!