Friday Night at Blue Heron

[Sandman]

I went to the Blue Heron on Friday night for a friends party. There were A LOT of people there and fights were breaking out left and right. Finally, the bartenders decided to close the bar down at about midnight. They locked everyone out and called the cops.

When I went out to the parking lot to leave, most people were still there and moved the party outside. I had driven down there with my friend Brian, so we jumped in his Jeep and headed out. At the top of the hill, right before the parkway, a sheriff had the road blocked and about 5 cars were stopped in front of us. The sheriff walked up to our car and asked if we were involved in the fight. Then he recognized me when he looked in the car and asked me if my driver was okay to drive. I said yes and he instructed us to pass the other cars and drive safely home.

Apparently, we were the only people he let through... everyone else was instructed to turn around and go back to the parking lot to wait for the road to be cleared. I heard 4 DUI's were given out and everyone else was allowed to leave once the cars blocking the road were towed. I also heard that there was a hit and run right in front of the Sheriff.

It was a crazy night at the clubhouse and the YLP security was of little help in controlling the situation. The sheriffs department, with the help of CHP, seemed to get everything under control pretty fast. Although I do not understand why everyone was instructed to go back to the parking lot. They waited there for over an hour. During that time, people pulled out there own alcohol and continued to drink. They were allowed to leave without having to talk to the cops. They were simply waived through and were probably drunker than before at that point.

Did they already meet their quotas for the night? Perhaps they had no more room to make arrests? Time for a shift change? Whatever the case may have been, they probably should have just setup a checkpoint and let the sober people leave right away, like they did to us. I'm not sure why they didn't continue to do that.

[Yosemite_Wolf]

SandMan. I don't know what happened that night. But all that I can say about YLP security is that they are NOT allowed to make arrests. That is the job of the Sheriffs and CHP. The problem lies in the ppl who attended the party. I mean, they are over 21 and SUPPOSED to be adults. This was NOT a high school bash. Hopefully this Pimps and Ho's party does NOT give the Blue Heron a bad name. But on a brighter note, The Blue Heron rocked on come Saturday night and of course Stone River gave awesome entertainment to a mostly adult crowd. In fact, there were several adults who had too much to drink and were escorted out. I hope that the Blue Heron has learned from this and will not host such childish parties again.

[Sandman]

From what I saw, the people that were involved in the fight were not necessarily there for the party. I see some of these people every time I am at the Blue Heron. So I don't think the party is to blame as is the select few that choose to start problems. Everyone that I was with were there to have a good time. It's a shame that a few people had to ruin it for the rest of the people.

[Yosemite_Wolf]

Mat.. the party was called "pimps and Ho's party" and you expect normalcy and calmness. And every party has its crashers. But my main focus on the last post was that YLP Security does not do arrests. there are only a few security officers on duty, and when trouble arises, they are to call the Sheriffs and CHP. So if you have a problem with how the fights were handled.. blame them NOT YLP Security. YLP security are NOT sworn officers of the law.

[Sandman]

I know it was called a Pimp's and Ho's Party. Pimp and Ho's parties are very common recently with the younger crowd. It's kind of like a costume party that one would go to on Halloween. It's a party with a theme. I understand that it may not be everyones cup of tea, but my point is that the party name is not the issue here, nor was it my topic of conversation. If it had been a "Fight Club" themed party, the party name would have relevance.

My point was that a fight broke out. Security was right in the middle of it when it was girls fighting, but they ran the other direction when the guys got involved. I understand they can not make an arrest. I'm just wondering what the point is having security. The bartender can just as easily call the Sheriff. Maybe security needs some handcuffs or something to hold a person when they get out of line.

My other point was to talk about how the Sheriffs responded. It seems odd to me that they made everyone stay there for an hour, then let them leave without a checkpoint.

Also, some people have criticized local Oakhurst bars for always having fights. This incident shows that fights in bars can happen in any bar. What matters is how the bar staff and security responds. When I see a fight at the Pines or Oak Room, it gets resolved real fast. At YLP, it kept going. In fact, there were about 6 rounds of fighting over an hour period of time. I also hoped that the staff learned some lessons from this.

As far as age goes, I have seen adults act quite childish at that bar. People of all ages cause problems. In fact, some local older YLP residents got involved. All involved were adults over 21.

[Yosemite_Wolf]

that just goes to show ya how fast the sheriffs and chp's respond! I guess they are too busy camping out.. outside of the OakRoom.

and besides... your commentary is hearsay. cos you said that you were allowed to leave promptly. so you were not there to know WHAT went on in the parking lot etc etc etc

[Sandman]

The Sheriff's showed up very quickly. They were not called until round 6 of the fighting and they were there within 10 minutes of the bar closing down. I was there for the fight, so everything I said was from what I saw myself. I saw the cars lined up with people waiting to get their DUI's. The only thing I did not witness was the wait in the parking lot after I left. My roommate was there, along with many other of my best friends. That's how I know what happened after I left. I was on the phone with them when they were waiting it out. I spoke with several people the next day and they all gave me the same story. They were all shocked that they were not stopped at the checkpoint. They were just waived on through. All of my friends had designated drivers, so they would have been fine had they been stopped.

[Newcomer]

It is my opinion, and I am an expert at this because I have watched a lot of TV shows with Pimps & Ho's :D that when Pimp's & Ho's move into the same territory (The Blue Heron) that a cat fight will aways break out and then the Pimps get involved. I know this is true because I saw it on TV. LOL

[beautiful_mess38]

I got my info from the Sec. guard that was there yesterday. YLP cannot make arrest. Sec. is there to keep everything calm. When it is out of control it is there job to call the sheriff.

And I agree with Newcomer and Wolfie. A party like that has a reputation of getting out of control.

The fight started with a regular and someone from the party.

[Kahlua Kid]

As an owner in and of YLP -- and the YLP association owns the bar -- I'm concerned about this type of behavior happening... the bar IMHO should be for owners/residents and their guests only. Not that that would stop altercations, but I would think it would limit them.

[Lacey]

It is my opinion, and I am an expert at this because I have watched a lot of TV shows with Pimps & Ho's :D that when Pimp's & Ho's move into the same territory (The Blue Heron) that a cat fight will aways break out and then the Pimps get involved. I know this is true because I saw it on TV. LOL

:fp: :D :D :D :D

[Yosemite_Wolf]

I am disappointed that Sandman choses to help portray a negative image of the Blue Heron. It is a wonderful place for renters and owners of YLP. If you have to fight and be a pimp/ho... then go down to Fresburg. I, as an owner, am looking at hosting a fundraiser bbq(?) winetasting at the Heron for the Leukemia society/parkers team in the future... and I believe that if ppl knew that such parties and fights were allowed, the attendance at my future fundraiser would suffer. The Blue Heron is a nice gathering place for YLP locals and their mountain friends to gather, dance, chat, smoke, drink, laugh etc etc. The Blue Heron has done sooooo much recently to improve their business such as Sunday buffets and friday bbq's Lets not ruin it now. (Just sad to know that it was a YLPer who hosted the party, but I doubt that she is an Owner.)

[Sandman]

The YLPer that hosted the party is an owner. So in this case, it was an owner and her guests at the party. We were laughing, joking, smoking, drinking and having a good time. A few people started problems and ruined it for everyone. Several people involved were residents of YLP. I'm not sure if they rent or own but I don't think that matters too much. The fact is that they live there and they have the same rights as homeowners. Right? One particular YLP resident was the main instigator in the matter. So excluding outside visitors may not be the best solution. As far as me making the YLP clubhouse look bad, I'm sorry you feel that way. I was just reporting the facts as I saw them. If this had taken place at the Oak Room or any other local bar, I would have reported it. It happens to be that it took place at YLP. It happens to be in the community where you live, so I understand that you may not want your community to look bad. As mentioned before, I have seen some adults (YLP Homeowners) act pretty childish in there before. This site is here to report issues in our area and this was a pretty big issue. I remember a post about a problem at the Pines bar last month. I'm sure residents of Bass Lake don't like to read that. But the fact is that all news and issues can be reported here, good or bad. We have good things in our community. But like every community, there are bad things. I was very upset that a fight broke out that night. I hate fights. But the fact of the matter is that fights happen in bars and I have a right to report the facts of the situation since I was there and witnessed it first hand.

[Dodgergirl]

KK, as much as I respect your opinion, I have to wonder...? I'm good enough to stop by & support the restaurant with a dinner purchase, but not welcome to stop by the bar for an after dinner drink? Surely I read your post wrong?
Oh, and I also own two homes (mine & my moms), so I'm not one of those dreaded renters mentioned in someone else's post... but I chose to buy in Teaford & Bass Lake...so maybe an exception could be made. ;)

As an owner in and of YLP -- and the YLP association owns the bar -- I'm concerned about this type of behavior happening... the bar IMHO should be for owners/residents and their guests only. Not that that would stop altercations, but I would think it would limit them.

[Sandman]

I'm a renter, not an owner. Does that make me less of a person? :rolleyes:

[Sandman]

It is my opinion, and I am an expert at this because I have watched a lot of TV shows with Pimps & Ho's :D that when Pimp's & Ho's move into the same territory (The Blue Heron) that a cat fight will aways break out and then the Pimps get involved. I know this is true because I saw it on TV. LOL

Too funny Newcomer. In this case, however, it wasn't Pimp's and Ho's fighting. The people that were fighting were not dressed up at all. I'm not even sure they were there for that party. It would have been pretty humorous if it had been a few "Pimp's" fighting over a "Ho", but that was not the case.

[Yosemite_Wolf]

sandman. renter or owner doenst matter.. it is respect. You can host a pimp and ho party.. but you have to maintain that your guests are gonna act like adults. . .. you claim that the fights were started by YLP owners.... your host was an YLP owner. YLP is a great place to live despite the stop signs. You have never supported YLP in the past. Pimps and Hos belong in Fresno not YLP or Oakhurst. you claim that your friends are adults and had DDs. So why did the fights start?? I have NEVER seen fights at YLP blue heron before in the past. Maybe i am living in the bubble.. but I hear the sirens fly down the parkway.

[Dodgergirl]

Sorry Sandman, but according to an above post, that was the vibe I received, except most of the property "Owners" I know are crazy partiers so maybe YLP is an exception... Nah, on second thought, I've been to a party or two in my lingerie there and had a blast...Good thing we didn't need security, (they wouldn't of made it out alive) and I seem to remember going in said lingerie to a local bar and dancing the night away.... hmmmmm? But then that bar was in Coarsegold, and well, we all know that "They" allow almost anything there.... but, in all fairness, there weren't any fights, well, that one lady almost caused a wreck, but no fights that I can remember...

I'm a renter, not an owner. Does that make me less of a person? :rolleyes:

[Sandman]

You said previously that it may have been a resident that hosted the party but you doubted it was a homeowner, like homeowners are better than renters. That's why I made my comment. In fact, it was a homeowner that was hosting this.

As far as my friends having DD's. It's true, they did. We all had safe rides home. None of my friends got DUI's. But your acting now like it was my friends that were fighting. That's not the case at all. I am not friends with the people that were fighting. Like I said before, I'm not even sure they were there for the party. I have seen a few of them in YLP every time I go there. YLP is a public bar so the host of the party can't be held responsible for everyone behavior there. It wasn't a private party.

[Sandman]

I agree, respect is important. Your last PM to me was not very respectful. I'm not going to participate in this topic anymore unless it pertains to the actual topic. I said everything I needed to say.

[Newcomer]

WOW, So much un-needed hostility here. Sandman just reported on an event that took place at a location. It could have been Erna's Elderberry or the Awahnee hotel and I am sure that it would have probably been posted here. Things here are getting blown way too far out of proportion when not needed. All I needed to know from this thread was that a so called "Pimp and Ho" party was held at the Blue Heron and some fights broke out. Fights break out everywhere, County fairs, McDonalds parking lot, The Oak Room, Taco Bell ect. Why does everybody have to get so defensive about things. He said this, She said that. There are more important things to worry about in life than being pissy with each other and at each other throats. We have Kids everyday dying for our country, Our panet is going to hell, Poverty is rampant and people are loosing their homes to fires, floods. foreclosures etc. There is mass genicide happening in the world and what, we are bickering about a fight at a bar. Wow! Time is to short, we need to stop this crap and get back to what matters. Health, Family & friends and try to enjoy life because you never know what is just arounf the corner tomorrow. I remember the feeling after 9/11 that people had towards each other and how everybody came together with their neighbors and stopped all the rage and bickering and acted like true civil neighbors and friends. It is terrible that an act of terrorism had to take place to make that happen but it seems that people have forgotten. I pray to got that it does not take another act like 9/11 to make people realize that time is way to short. End of Rant...

[Summer]

It is my opinion, and I am an expert at this because I have watched a lot of TV shows with Pimps & Ho's :D that when Pimp's & Ho's move into the same territory (The Blue Heron) that a cat fight will aways break out and then the Pimps get involved. I know this is true because I saw it on TV. LOL
Newcomer, leave it up to you to "lighten" a situation when it becomes waaaay too heavy! Thanks for being here!

[Dodgergirl]

[QUOTE=Newcomer;48013]WOW, So much un-needed hostility here. Sandman just reported on an event that took place at a location. It could have been Erna's Elderberry or the Awahnee hotel and I am sure that it would have probably been posted here.

:clap:

[Sandman]

Thanks for posting this Newcomer. I agree 100%. I truly was just trying to report on an event that I witnessed. When I posted it, I had no idea it would turn into such a sore subject for people. I thought everyone would agree that the fighting at the bar was stupid and I was just looking for comments on how the security and sheriffs responded. It turned a new direction and went way off topic then turned into personal attacks via PM's. That is not at all what I expected.

Never in the history of this site have I been so uncomfortable to be on my own website as I have been in the last few months.

WOW, So much un-needed hostility here. Sandman just reported on an event that took place at a location. It could have been Erna's Elderberry or the Awahnee hotel and I am sure that it would have probably been posted here. Things here are getting blown way too far out of proportion when not needed. All I needed to know from this thread was that a so called "Pimp and Ho" party was held at the Blue Heron and some fights broke out. Fights break out everywhere, County fairs, McDonalds parking lot, The Oak Room, Taco Bell ect. Why does everybody have to get so defensive about things. He said this, She said that. There are more important things to worry about in life than being pissy with each other and at each other throats. We have Kids everyday dying for our country, Our panet is going to hell, Poverty is rampant and people are loosing their homes to fires, floods. foreclosures etc. There is mass genicide happening in the world and what, we are bickering about a fight at a bar. Wow! Time is to short, we need to stop this crap and get back to what matters. Health, Family & friends and try to enjoy life because you never know what is just arounf the corner tomorrow. I remember the feeling after 9/11 that people had towards each other and how everybody came together with their neighbors and stopped all the rage and bickering and acted like true civil neighbors and friends. It is terrible that an act of terrorism had to take place to make that happen but it seems that people have forgotten. I pray to got that it does not take another act like 9/11 to make people realize that time is way to short. End of Rant...

[SlimeMold]

It was a crazy night at the clubhouse and the YLP security was of little help in controlling the situation. The sheriffs department, with the help of CHP, seemed to get everything under control pretty fast..

A Security Officers function is to "Observe and Report" on activities. It is LE's duty to do anything further.

[Sandman]

A Security Officers function is to "Observe and Report" on activities. It is LE's duty to do anything further.

Thanks for bringing this back to topic. I definitely wouldn't want overaggressive security. I was more trying to just tell the facts of the evening as I saw. I'm sure security did their job as best they could. But I do think a call to the Sheriffs department should have been made a lot sooner in the evening. Perhaps they didn't want to have the cops there for fear of bad publicity??? I don't know.

Anyway, the bottom line is the place was packed and their was bound to be a problem between a few people there. But I think one guy (a YLP resident) getting kicked out could have resolved the situation a lot sooner. There was one main instigator.

[beautiful_mess38]

A Security Officers function is to "Observe and Report" on activities. It is LE's duty to do anything further.


Thank You very much. Sandman mentioned YLP security. Yosemite Wolf went on to defend YLP Security. Then it was blown out of porportion. This is why I don't post on this forum that much.
I've was told first hand from security what happend. The fight was not started with just people from YLP but also from people whom participated with the Pimps and Ho's party. Also the CHP and Sheriffs don't hang out in YLP. Therefore thier response is going to be slower then being in Oakhurst.
I've probably been to the Heron more then Sandman being I live here. I have never seen a fight start. Having that been said like all bars there have been fights. Thats why I don't go to the Oakroom seems like everytime I'm there except for the last time there has been a fight. Why there weren't more DUI's handed out that night is beyond me. I'm going to have to ask YLP Sec. on that one and see if he knows why.

[SlimeMold]

Perhaps they didn't want to have the cops there for fear of bad publicity??? I don't know.


I know in the past the YLP Board has gotten upset over bad publicity. I can remember when our water supply was contaminated with e-coli and how upset the board was when that made the news.

So, perhaps the Board has set strict guidelines on when LE should be called in to the Blue Heron or other situations in YLP.

I personally have never been to the Blue Heron as I can not drink and I dislike being around people drinking to excess. But I am a YLP resident and like to hear about YLP news good or bad.

[Yosemite_Wolf]

I too like my community. To have ppl come down here and support such an silly party idea and give our YLP security a bad rap pisses me off. If anyone here has ever worked security whilst a party has gone out of hand, they would understand. Sandman, try working security at the fairgrounds for a 15 year olds "coming out" party.... having gangs bust in on the party and you are the ONLY security officer in attendance... would you be able to stop the fights? NO. YOU would call the sheriff, police, CHP. Our security may be token.. but at least it is a presense. I like our Blue Heron, and I don't want one of my amenities taken away because of non resident's actions.

[Sandman]

Thanks for your interest in trying to find me a job Wolfie. But security would not be my cup of tea. I am very happy doing computer work. Thanks for the suggestion though.

[Ironhorse]

I've read this thread and thought about it. Bottom line, when some people go into a bar, they put their "stupid" hats on, drink too much, act crazy and start fights. It's a fact of life, it goes on at some point in just about every bar in the country. IF it gets out of hand enough, and enough reports are made, ABC will suspend the liquor license. Bars have a difficult time controlling their clientele when they drink, that's why many hire security guards. It's correct that security can't make arrests, but they can assess a situation and call for law enforcement back up when it's needed, and maybe, just maybe, they waited to long to make that call in this instance. I've had some personal experience with the security company from YLP, but I'm not going to get in to that. Many security companies could have the same comments made about them. It's the nature of the beast. IF YLP Board of Directors has established some type of formal criteria for when security is allowed to call law enforcement, that could be a mistake, because it could let things get too far out of hand before the call is made. Regardless, the animosity caused by this thread is sad. I didn't take it that there was any fingerpointing in the original post, I saw it as someone asking for information or thoughts on why certain things were done and not done, no biggie. The person was concerned. If people who lived in YLP were offended, then maybe a need exists that the parties hosted at the bar be re-evaluated, and new criteria established. No one wants their party place to have a black eye, so be part of the solution, work to ensure it doesn't happen again. Unlike many drinking/social establishments YLP'ers have the ability to control what happens there. But people getting angry on these forums over this is needless and, I'm sorry to say, a bit silly. JMO

[Sandman]

I've read this thread and thought about it. Bottom line, when some people go into a bar, they put their "stupid" hats on, drink too much, act crazy and start fights. It's a fact of life, it goes on at some point in just about every bar in the country. IF it gets out of hand enough, and enough reports are made, ABC will suspend the liquor license. Bars have a difficult time controlling their clientele when they drink, that's why many hire security guards. It's correct that security can't make arrests, but they can assess a situation and call for law enforcement back up when it's needed, and maybe, just maybe, they waited to long to make that call in this instance. I've had some personal experience with the security company from YLP, but I'm not going to get in to that. Many security companies could have the same comments made about them. It's the nature of the beast. IF YLP Board of Directors has established some type of formal criteria for when security is allowed to call law enforcement, that could be a mistake, because it could let things get too far out of hand before the call is made. Regardless, the animosity caused by this thread is sad. I didn't take it that there was any fingerpointing in the original post, I saw it as someone asking for information or thoughts on why certain things were done and not done, no biggie. The person was concerned. If people who lived in YLP were offended, then maybe a need exists that the parties hosted at the bar be re-evaluated, and new criteria established. No one wants their party place to have a black eye, so be part of the solution, work to ensure it doesn't happen again. Unlike many drinking/social establishments YLP'ers have the ability to control what happens there. But people getting angry on these forums over this is needless and, I'm sorry to say, a bit silly. JMO

Thanks for putting in your opinion on this Ironhorse. :applause:

[Kahlua Kid]

Hi Dodge, I meant owners/residents (ie., renters are residents). I'm not saying anyone is less a person that doesn't live in YLP. Or that doesn't own...

I was thinking that those who own or live there would have more respect for the place than outsiders in general. IMHO.

I'm concerned about potential liabilities the bar presents in general now. I am going to write the BOD about this.

[Sandman]

Hi Dodge, I meant owners/residents (ie., renters are residents). I'm not saying anyone is less a person that doesn't live in YLP. Or that doesn't own...

I was thinking that those who own or live there would have more respect for the place than outsiders in general. IMHO.

I'm concerned about potential liabilities the bar presents in general now. I am going to write the BOD about this.

What about guests? Should a resident be allowed to have guests use the facilities? It would be hard to enforce that since it's a small town where everyone knows someone that owns a house there. I know at least a dozen people that live there.

Would you also suggest closing the restaurant to the public or just the bar? The restaurant serves alcohol...

Just curious how these issues would/could be addressed.

[Mysteefied]

Wow, I just read through this entire thing...interesting.

I wish I could think of something witty or something helpful to say, but honestly I don't know enough about YLP, Pimps & Ho's or the Blue Heron.

~PEACE~

[Kim]

Thanks for your interest in trying to find me a job Wolfie. But security would not be my cup of tea. I am very happy doing computer work. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Sarcasm sure helps keep things on topic, doesn't it?

[Ironhorse]

Sarcasm sure helps keep things on topic, doesn't it?

Actually, it would be better to ignore the sarcasm, cruel remarks and animosity on all sides, get this back on topic and if there's a solution to be suggested, suggest it. There's no point in the thread continuing to deteriorate, and personal attacks are non-productive. I don't know what happened among some people, but bitterness just seems to keep popping up here. Personally, I don't find it enjoyable, as I'm sure others don't either who want to just come here and learn about our town and have a good time.

[Kim]

That's true. I managed to ignore it for 4 pages, then forgot my "have coffee before posting" rule. Coffee now in my hand, thank goodness.

Ignoring the sarcasm and negativity....here are the salient points for me....
1. Alcohol and tempers equal fights. They shouldn't happen in public, but they do.
2. Whether it's an accepted thing or not, the attitude behind "pimps and ho's" seems to accompany above alcohol and fights. Just because the young people do this sort of party frequently doesn't make it good. Personally, if I'm ever referred to as a "ho", I may get in a fight, alcohol or not, so I would stay away from a party with that nickname. My 19 year old agrees.
3. If people at the bar chose to drink in the parking lot, that was a really poor decision.
4. Feelings are being hurt way too easily here.

[Ironhorse]

That's true. I managed to ignore it for 4 pages, then forgot my "have coffee before posting" rule. Coffee now in my hand, thank goodness.

Ignoring the sarcasm and negativity....here are the salient points for me....
1. Alcohol and tempers equal fights. They shouldn't happen in public, but they do.
2. Whether it's an accepted thing or not, the attitude behind "pimps and ho's" seems to accompany above alcohol and fights. Just because the young people do this sort of party frequently doesn't make it good. Personally, if I'm ever referred to as a "ho", I may get in a fight, alcohol or not, so I would stay away from a party with that nickname. My 19 year old agrees.
3. If people at the bar chose to drink in the parking lot, that was a really poor decision.
4. Feelings are being hurt way too easily here.

LOL, there'd be no maybe about it, if I was referred to as a "ho", it'd be throw down time. I guess I'm old fashioned, when I saw the "theme" of the party, I was somewhat disconcerted, make that a lot disconcerted. I doubt if at any age in my life I would have attended a party with that theme. As for alcohol and tempers equaling fights, so true, but sometimes the fights can just be attributed to the alcohol and the aforementioned "stupid" caps some people put on, there's no anger prior to the fight, just a need for them to show they're "top dog". I used to go to bars, in my younger days, I quit because of all the predictable fighting. And the type of bar didn't matter, whether it was a "nice" restaurant/bar set up, a cowboy bar, a hip bar, and invariably the fights all involved people who had drunk way too much. Funny how people's brains take leave of their bodies when the drinking starts. Guess there's no room for it with all that added liquid, LOL.

[Dodgergirl]

I went to the Blue Heron on Friday night for a friends party. There were A LOT of people there and fights were breaking out left and right. Finally, the bartenders decided to close the bar down at about midnight. They locked everyone out and called the cops.

When I went out to the parking lot to leave, most people were still there and moved the party outside. I had driven down there with my friend Brian, so we jumped in his Jeep and headed out. At the top of the hill, right before the parkway, a sheriff had the road blocked and about 5 cars were stopped in front of us. The sheriff walked up to our car and asked if we were involved in the fight. Then he recognized me when he looked in the car and asked me if my driver was okay to drive. I said yes and he instructed us to pass the other cars and drive safely home.

Apparently, we were the only people he let through... everyone else was instructed to turn around and go back to the parking lot to wait for the road to be cleared. I heard 4 DUI's were given out and everyone else was allowed to leave once the cars blocking the road were towed. I also heard that there was a hit and run right in front of the Sheriff.

It was a crazy night at the clubhouse and the YLP security was of little help in controlling the situation. The sheriffs department, with the help of CHP, seemed to get everything under control pretty fast. Although I do not understand why everyone was instructed to go back to the parking lot. They waited there for over an hour. During that time, people pulled out there own alcohol and continued to drink. They were allowed to leave without having to talk to the cops. They were simply waived through and were probably drunker than before at that point.

Did they already meet their quotas for the night? Perhaps they had no more room to make arrests? Time for a shift change? Whatever the case may have been, they probably should have just setup a checkpoint and let the sober people leave right away, like they did to us. I'm not sure why they didn't continue to do that.

AND...
back to the original topic, which I believe was about Security, Police and Checkpoints.. (or lack thereof)...

[beautiful_mess38]

A friend came by this morning, her, her hubby and kids were at a bbq in the park. The host of the bbq decided to go to the heron with a few friends from the bbq. My friend didnt go because they had a horse show the following morning. I know who she is. (matt very very big boobs) I guess she started the first fight. I've seen her misbehave there before but no fight. She gets to drunk and out of control. As a matter of fact she was there when we had pops bday at the heron. Remember the bottle thing. Anyway matt I'm sure you saw the guy in the wheel chair and the guy on crutches. They sat back and watched the whole thing. They told my friend who came to see me this morning what happend. The popcorn machine is broke plus a few other things. boob lady and her hubby have been 86ed from the heron. I also heard there were 8 dui's and one arrest. They guy that was arrested caused the accident with my friends (drunk driving) my friends still cant work. There were also people who walked home. Now thats smart.
Back to security. If the Pimp & ho party was reserved there would have been more security. The one security guard has to drive around the park and push buttons to prove he was there. This man being of age cannot break up a fight with much younger people and he was not in the bar the whole time. I think the bar manager should have had better control. I did hear that he called the cops after the 3rd fight. Don't know what took them so long. My friend had to go and she said she'll tell me more tonight.

[SheilaMae]

Just a little hindsight, perhaps - I've posted on the Saturday Night at the Heron thread I was there the night following the situation Sandman spoke of and the Friday night incident was the talk of the lounge, of course.

Comments circulated through the evening from folks who'd either been present the evening before or gotten the scoop after investigating through the clubhouse staff and neighbors as to what all the fuss was that brought out the sheriff's department and CHP. Everyone I spoke to was giving friendly warnings to watch your step, have a designated driver and be careful. No one I spoke to was laying any blame at anyone's doorstep - no commentary about either individuals or groups.

I did notice that security was being cautious and may have even been overzealous in trying to avert any repeat of the prior evening as I saw one couple asked to leave when it didn't seem at all necessary.

Just an observation - I have noticed before and did notice on Saturday night so it seems to be a recurring situation that some folks seem to come in to the location later in the evening already pretty well saturated and not to overgeneralize but seems those folks are disruptive from the start - edgng folks out of their way to get to the bartender, sloppy bumping into dancers and folks in the path to the deck, beyond even noticing enough to apologize.

Also, I've noted that it sometimes seems there are if not in excess of the location's allowed capacity - too many bodies in such a tight space, which psychologists and anthropologists will tell you always increases irritability among folks even without the influence of alcohol.

Maybe it would be a simple fix to have a door person from say 11pm to close and refuse admittance after a fixed quota of patrons and to anyone visibly already amply served.

[Ironhorse]

Good ideas SheilaMae. A door person would certainly be able to weed out people who have already had too much to drink. And yes, the bar should keep an eye on the number of occupants. If they start to have too much trouble there, the Sheriff AND Fire Department might start walkthroughs and cite for too many people in the bar, or start writing reports to ABC about the number of calls they have to respond to there for fights. Their resources are stretched thin, especially up around the foothills, and if one business starts taking an unfair share of those resources for responses, they'll start working on getting it shut down. Also, if the bartender serves someone who has already had "enough to drink", the bar could be held liable for any accidents, etc. that person got involved in.

[Sandman]

Thanks for your post Messy. Yes, I saw all of the people you mentioned in your post and it sounds like you have the correct story. There is more to the story... but thats how things got started. A good friend of mine said that someone tried to trip her when she walked out the door and she thought maybe thats how the fight started. Perhaps this lady was tripped and didn't realize it. She fell into another girl and a fight started. I don't know that to be true, but I guess it could be a possibility. If that is what happened, the people that were fighting were not even the people that started it. Who knows...

A friend came by this morning, her, her hubby and kids were at a bbq in the park. The host of the bbq decided to go to the heron with a few friends from the bbq. My friend didnt go because they had a horse show the following morning. I know who she is. (matt very very big boobs) I guess she started the first fight. I've seen her misbehave there before but no fight. She gets to drunk and out of control. As a matter of fact she was there when we had pops bday at the heron. Remember the bottle thing. Anyway matt I'm sure you saw the guy in the wheel chair and the guy on crutches. They sat back and watched the whole thing. They told my friend who came to see me this morning what happend. The popcorn machine is broke plus a few other things. boob lady and her hubby have been 86ed from the heron. I also heard there were 8 dui's and one arrest. They guy that was arrested caused the accident with my friends (drunk driving) my friends still cant work. There were also people who walked home. Now thats smart.
Back to security. If the Pimp & ho party was reserved there would have been more security. The one security guard has to drive around the park and push buttons to prove he was there. This man being of age cannot break up a fight with much younger people and he was not in the bar the whole time. I think the bar manager should have had better control. I did hear that he called the cops after the 3rd fight. Don't know what took them so long. My friend had to go and she said she'll tell me more tonight.

[mermomma]

I heard from both bartenders point of view, they had wished that instead of setting up outside, that the sherrifs had come in to help with the fighting instead of just setting up outside and popping people who were leaving. Had they come inside earlier, then maybe gone out and set up to watch people leaving....then maybe there wouldn't have been a second or third fight, nor would there have been people drinking in the parking lot.My friend who is the bartender there, said he kept going outside and people had brought their own alcohol, Jaeger bottles, beer cans, stuff they don't carry, all laying around, so that's where the bouncers would have come in handy to take that away from unpaying patrons and that way the bartender can make sure they don't over serve people. I was invited to that party, and very happy that I trusted my gut feeling and didn't go. I had a really good time Saturday night with Stone River and you gals!
I just figured that my friend, whose party this was, had planned things and reserved the place, they should have contracted more bouncers for the evening, and in any bar I worked for, in such a case as this, we would have.
In hindsight, the place was unprepared for the influx of people, and the bartenders realize this now, and whoever the event coordinator for the Heron is, they need to be more aware of situations like these. I mean this can happen at weddings or any kind of large party. I know! I've worked these kind of events for years, that's why I'm a hairdresser now!!

[Sandman]

I will copy my posts from ylponline.com to this thread...

Hello YLPers....

Someone has asked me to participate in this conversation and share my story of what happened at the YLP Clubhouse on Friday night.

I got a call on Friday evening from a friend asking me if I would go to a party at the clubhouse. I said that I may show up. I later learned that most of my friends were going and I was offered a ride down there from one of my best friends. I learned that it was a theme party called "Pimp's and Ho's". Although I did not dress up myself, many people were dressed up. I, myself, don't make a good pimp or ho. LOL.

Anyway, a lot of people showed up. In fact, I think it was the most people I have seen there at one time. Everyone was in a good mood and seemed to be having fun. I know that this type of theme may not be everyones "cup of tea", but I have to admit that it was pretty entertaining seeing some of these costumes. Halloween is one of my favorite holidays. There was a guy with a big "fro" wig... a few cool hats... etc.

A few girls got into a fight on the back deck. Everyone just kind of stood back and watched for a few minutes, then some guys (perhaps boyfriends) broke it up and the party continued. All went well for an hour or so. Then I noticed a fight inside the bar between several guys. I could see what was happening through the big windows. That fight lasted a few minutes but the bartender and staff did a great job in getting everyone outside on the deck and they locked the door. They closed out the bar tabs and closed up the bar. They also called the Sheriff. A few more fights occurred out on the deck and a lot of people were trying to stop the fighting. Some of these people were YLPers and some were part of the party.

There were a lot of people at the clubhouse and in a situation like this, there are bound to be a few people that do not get along. I'm not sure what the problem was, but I recognized some of the people involved as being regulars to that bar. I couldn't give you names though since I had not met these people. You would have to ask security or the bar staff who it was. I'm sure they know the names.

The party was moved out to the parking lot and I decided to leave. On our way out, a Sheriff was blocking the road near the main parkway. I guess he was doing a checkpoint cause he had several cars stopped. He talked to us, learned that we were sober and were not involved in the fight and he let us pass the other cars.

I later spoke with my roommate and other friends that were there and learned that they were told to turn around and wait in the parking lot. They waited for over an hour and were allowed to leave with no checkpoint. Although, all of my friends had designated drivers and would have been fine to leave if the checkpoint was still in effect. I heard a rumor that there was a hit and run in front of the Sheriff after I left. But I can't confirm that.

I also heard that 4 DUI's were issued. I don't know that as fact but I did see at least 4 cars stopped. On our way back to Oakhurst, we saw many CHP and Sheriff cars heading down with lights on. It seems to me that they did respond pretty quickly, once they were called.

I don't think the theme of the party is to blame. It was meant to be a fun party for adults. But any time that many drunk people are together, there is bound to be a fight no matter where you are.

It's too bad security was not able to get a hold of the situation before it got out of control. I honestly feel that one guy was the main instigator and everything would have been fine if he was removed.

I know that YLP doesn't like bad press, but I feel that any news (good or bad) should be discussed so that people can come up with solutions to avoid these problems or handle them better.

In all, the staff at the clubhouse did a pretty good job. But looking back on the situation, I feel a few things could have been done to prevent the fights from continuing over and over again.

I'll go to the clubhouse again and I don't think any less of YLP. This type of stuff can happen anywhere.

<HR>

I believe Messy is correct... it was a private party for a birthday. I'm not sure anyone reserved the space.

Anyone can say "Hey, I'm having a birthday party at such and such place and it's a themed party". It doesn't necessarily mean that the establishment is aware that the party is going to be there. They are open for business to everyone and people are going to plan parties at bars. We have hosted many "Oakhurst Forums" parties there without telling them ahead of time. Of course, there were no problems.

In this case, I think the bartenders may have had some warning of a party that was going to be there that night, but I'm not sure what details were provided. I think they just knew to expect a lot of people.

The Blue Heron is one of my favorite places to go up here. This was the first fight I have seen there. I hate going to places were people start fights. But fights can happen anywhere. I think the fact that there was a fight and the fact that there was a party called "Pimps and Ho's" are two separate issues, but thats just my opinion. I didn't see any "Pimp's" or "Ho's" participate in the fighting. I'm not at all saying that Pimp and Ho parties should be a regular thing at YLP, I'm just saying that it is a separate issue to debate. Fights can happen weather there is a themed party or not and the staff needs to be prepared.

It's a shame that this happened, but I'm not so sure that the YLP GM is to blame since he/she probably wasn't aware of this until after it happened.

Also, I'm not so sure what the best solution would be to prevent this type of thing from happening in the future. You can't really control a party unless it's a planned event with your board. When you have a bar, you have to expect that you'll get some unpleasant people at times.

Would you suggest excluding people from the clubhouse unless they are residents of YLP? What about Guests? I'm not so sure this would be the best solution, but I have seen some suggest this on my website. I think the Blue Heron's business would suffer and who is to say that YLP residents would behave any better? In this case, it was YLP residents involved.

I'm also not so sure what the rules are for the clubhouse. Are there posted rules? The clubhouse seems to be open to anyone at any time. Is this the case? This is a seperate subject, but I often wonder... Are minors excluded at night time or are they allowed in the clubhouse during bar hours? I assume they would be allowed to be everywhere except for the bar, but most of the partying happens on the deck.

<HR>

You can read this entire thread here: http://ylponline.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=1191069271&f=2981000371&m=8631053724&r=2431099724#2431099724

[Kahlua Kid]

I was thinking more along the lines of how they handle the other amenities... pool, golf course, tennis courts, etc... "when accompanied by a owner/resident".

Sounds like that particular resident doesn't respect where they live to have been a part of this -

[Sandman]

I wasn't aware that there was an issue with the pool, tennis courts, etc... I have never used any of those YLP amenities. I assume these things are locked up and only homeowners have keys, but I don't know. If that's not the case, it should be.

As far as the clubhouse goes, it seems open to anyone at any time. I think the Blue Heron would suffer if that changed.

[Kahlua Kid]

The Blue Heron restaurant and lounge are owned by the YLP Association. Our HOA dues support them. From what I've seen they run at a loss - don't make enough money by the patronage to even be open. If not for a portion of the dues going there, they wouldn't exist any longer.

So, what I'm saying is, that like all other YLP supported amenities (pool, golf, etc...) the Blue Heron should be treated like them - as sort of a private club for residents and their guests... I'm thinking that would perhaps stop this sort of thing from happening).

If the Blue Heron was independently owned, like the Chevron station, grocery store or Hardware store, I could see it being open to all... but its not. Its owned by the YLP Homeowners who pay the Association dues.

[Sandman]

Thanks for your post. I was unaware that the Association owned that business. I thought it was privately owned. That changes things from my point of view, but I am still not convinced that it would help by excluding outside guests.

In this case, it was YLP residents that were fighting. YLPers are not any better than non YLPers and there can still be fights.

If Blue Heron got less business by excluding outsiders, wouldn't that cost YLP more money to keep it open?

Also, how would you handle YLPers that want to let guests use the facilities? Like I mentioned before, everyone in this small town knows someone that lives there. So everyone could be considered a guest.

One more thing... how would you handle events? The clubhouse rents out for parties, weddings etc. Would that continue? I'm sure it's a big money maker for YLP.

[Kahlua Kid]

I don't know if they rent the hall to non YLP people or General Public. My opinion would be that it would have to be a YLP person and/or guest with YLP person present at function. But that's me.

Yes, if they excluded non-YLPrs from being walk-ins without a YLP person the bar would make less money and the HOA would have to pony up more money - which begs the question... is the amenity worth it enough to support it with dues when it bleeds money? I think its nice to have a place to go for local YLPrs... I'd say yes. But if it becomes too great a liability for the HOA - I say no.

I'm not saying YLP people are immune from being drunk and disorderly - just that you'd think they would respect the place the live. Even animals don't $&*t where they sleep!

[Sandman]

I believe they rent the clubhouse to anyone that gives them a check. I have been to many functions there. They do weddings very often and I doubt it's only YLP people getting married there. I could be wrong, so perhaps a YLPer can respond.

It just seems like closing the clubhouse to only residents would reduce business to the point that it wouldn't survive. As you stated, it doesn't profit as is. Can YLP afford to run the place without outside support? I don't think it can.

Also, this solution wouldn't have helped in this case. It was a YLPer that invited us down there (so we were guests with an owner present) and it was YLPers fighting. I would also think that owners would have more respect, but in this case... that was not the case at all. YLP residents were the problem. So why exclude outsiders?

Also, I can think of some musicians that would miss this venue.

[beautiful_mess38]

The new Pres. of the BOD will be looking well let me quote him "I will be looking under the hood of all the amnemties". Everyone knows the cafe and the heron bleed money. He's going to try to fix it. I also beleave the lounge should stay open to the public not just YLPers. After all both restaurants are. Im not sure and I will find out if non YLPers can reserve the party room.

Friday night is coming down hard on the GM. He's going to have to figure out what to do from here on out.

[Place]

Sandman, Thanks for joining Ylp Online and your posts. I really need to visit here more often to get the scoop. Nice new Forum, looks great.
Beverly

[Kim]

"Also, I can think of some musicians that would miss this venue".
If you mean that they wouldn't be playing there, that's not the case unless the Heron stops doing live music altogether. Then yeah, I can only speak for Stone River, but they would miss it. If they keep live music, I don't think Matt would limit performers to YLP residents only.

[Kahlua Kid]

I'm not talking about performers. I'm talking about general public going in...

[Sandman]

I was just thinking the performers would rather play for more people and if only residents were allowed there they wouldn't have much of a crowd. I'm not so sure they would be able to stay open if it were a members only bar, let alone pay for live entertainment. Would the business be able to support it?

Also, the clubhouse has been open to the public ever since YLP was built. I remember going there since I was 10 years old. I bet there would be a lot of residents that would be angry at a change. YLP doesn't like bad press and I think this sort of change would generate a lot of that.

There are ways around rules though, so I don't see much changing even if the clubhouse was restricted to residents. People would find their way in if they want to go there. If a group of us wanted to go, we just call a friend that lives in YLP to go with us. We usually do that anyway. Honestly, I just don't think the board would even consider such a change that would take away business and money. Especially considering the fact that this last party wouldn't have been prevented by this type of new rule considering that it was a resident that invited us and residents that were fighting.

[Ironhorse]

Do they have people sign contracts when they have events there? Although that wouldn't make much difference in this instance where it was kind of a "drop in" type party. But maybe what they need to do is limit the number of participants in those types of parties, unless a contract is signed, laying out rules and penalties. I don't know if that would work, just throwing it out.

[Sandman]

I see your point Ironhorse and in most places that may work... but in a small town, I'm not so sure it would work. Everyone knows everyone in this town and word of mouth gets out when something is going on. How could you tell who is there for an event and who just happens to be there? Remember, everyone knows everyone in this town so people are going to mingle with everyone that is there. It doesn't necessarily mean they are organizing a party. No matter where I go, I run into a ton of people I know. So I could be accused of organizing a party on a weekly basis.

[Ironhorse]

LOL, I see what you mean. I guess my thoughts came from the perspective of an old hermit. I can go for days and go most anyplace in town without seeing anyone I know.

[SlimeMold]

LOL, I see what you mean. I guess my thoughts came from the perspective of an old hermit. I can go for days and go most anyplace in town without seeing anyone I know.

I guess I'm more like you Ironhorse. Been in YLP since '93. Tested computer games for awhile up in Oakhurst and I rarely run into a single person I know. The exceptions are people working at places I eat or shop.

[Ironhorse]

I guess I'm more like you Ironhorse. Been in YLP since '93. Tested computer games for awhile up in Oakhurst and I rarely run into a single person I know. The exceptions are people working at places I eat or shop.

I had been coming up here since the 70's when my parents bought their property, but didn't move up here till 6 years ago. What with going back and forth, back and forth to my son's to babysit the grandkids during the week, I don't make a lot of friends up here. I've met a few people from the forums here. I'm not a person who makes friends easily most times, and the job I used to have, well it was so noisy, so many people to deal with and stressful, I just got in the habit of going home and enjoying the peace and quiet of being alone. LOL, I have 25 years of noise and stress to make up for, so I still enjoy that quiet. I have started making a lot of friends in both the hockey club and figure skating club families that the grandkids belong to. The moms and I swap dress making information and talk about "why didn't he get that puck?" and scream ourselves hoarse at the games.

[Michelle]

Okay I have been reading posts in here and YLP online and maybe I shouldn't even say anything but Ummmmmmmmm just because a party has a theme what the heck does that have to do with people fighting... Bars always have fights with the people who think they have nuts when they drink to much (even women). I have been at the YLP bar (a long time ago) and at least twice there would be fights going on... A bar is a place that is an invitation to fights. It is the bars responsibility to watch the room and see if things are getting out of hand and if you have a room with a party and regulars who come too there should be a security guy there anyways. In fact there should be a security guy there anyways on the weekend.
A BAR is a place for if provoked by the right people will have a fight. instead of placing blame help take control of the area and think about how to keep them from happening and get a guard there on the weekends or whenever it becomes a packed room...
just a thought. but I dont' think because of a party's theme is a coz of fighting.. The problem is the drinking .

[Dodgergirl]

:yt:
...and the original post was about security? remember? and not just YLP security...