Traffic Incident Information for the Yosemite Area

[TOT]

He really was. At least he went with his dog. I don't know why that's comforting, but it is.

[Sandman]

I was told that a girl I knew was killed. She was in her 20's. Does this mean that info was not correct?

[monkey]

A friend that worked the accident told my husband and I of it yesterday and what he said was the same info I got from the paper that I posted. Hopefully your friend is ok.

[BGW]

Originally posted by Sandman:
I was told that a girl I knew was killed. She was in her 20's. Does this mean that info was not correct?
Mat--CW was given misinformation...he is sitting here now and apologizes profusely.

[Sandman]

Well, this is exactly why we don't post specifics until we have confirmation. I'm glad that misinformation was not posted on this site yesterday. Posting info from trusted sources, as YJ did, is fine. But you must state your source and the source can't be word of mouth.

[citizen]

Originally posted by Yosemite_Wolf:
I was coming home from Fresno on Sunday. and had this small RiceBurner ahead of me...

Sometimes people say things without realizing what they mean.

Origins: From rice, a derogatory term for anything of Asian origin, and burner, combined with rice to resemble a form of vehicle fuel conversion like gas-guzzler.

http://www.unwords.com/unword/riceburner.html

Is that what you meant? http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/confused.gif

[Patagoniamaniac]

about oriental drivers since we are speaking of rice.....why do they drive like crap?...the other day i was following a car coming south on 41 by snowline.. driving ..slow. then fast..slow ..fast.. stop in the middle of the road..I mentioned to the person beside me..How much you want to bet that its an oriental driver...sure enough...(shaking head)

[Newcomer]

Originally posted by citizen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yosemite_Wolf:
I was coming home from Fresno on Sunday. and had this small RiceBurner ahead of me...

Sometimes people say things without realizing what they mean.

Origins: From rice, a derogatory term for anything of Asian origin, and burner, combined with rice to resemble a form of vehicle fuel conversion like gas-guzzler.

http://www.unwords.com/unword/riceburner.html

Is that what you meant? http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/confused.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you Mr. Webster http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/laugh.gif for that definition LOL

[citizen]

Originally posted by Patagoniamaniac:
about oriental drivers since we are speaking of rice.....why do they drive like crap?...the other day i was following a car coming south on 41 by snowline.. driving ..slow. then fast..slow ..fast.. stop in the middle of the road..I mentioned to the person beside me..How much you want to bet that its an oriental driver...sure enough...(shaking head)

http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/no.gif

More definitions for you... this time from dictionary.com

Racist: a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement

Oriental: noun
1. a member of an Oriental race; the term is regarded as offensive by Asians (especially by Asian Americans)

[Patagoniamaniac]

oh so I'm a racist?...right..I'm part asian myself..

[citizen]

Originally posted by Patagoniamaniac:
oh so I'm a racist?...right..I'm part asian myself..

I'm glad you told me before I rode in a car with you. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/freak.gif

All kidding aside, I can find humor in racial differences. I love Dave Chappelle and most of his humor is inspired by the different people of this world.

However, there are many people that really get offended and I try to watch what I say so that I don't offend others. Even if I was blind, I wouldn't poke fun at blind people. There may be a blind person that doesn't find it funny.

And as far as bad drivers go, women also get a bad rap for that, so since you fall into both categories, I'll make sure I stay clear. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/laugh.gif

It would have been just as likely for that bad driver in front of you to be a little old man that can't see well, or a young teenager that is learning to drive. A lot of people are dying in car accidents up here lately and they are not all Asian.

[Yosemite Sam]

So I suppose that because I ride a mule around town that you think that I am one of those brokeback Mountain types eh? You have offended me and my mule http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/shout.gif

[citizen]

Originally posted by Yosemite Sam:
So I suppose that because I ride a mule around town that you think that I am one of those brokeback Mountain types eh? You have offended me and my mule http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/shout.gif

http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/rofl5.gif

Why was your mule offended? Is she the jealous type? http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/laugh.gif

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally posted by citizen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yosemite Sam:
So I suppose that because I ride a mule around town that you think that I am one of those brokeback Mountain types eh? You have offended me and my mule http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/shout.gif

http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/rofl5.gif

Why was your mule offended? Is she the jealous type? http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/laugh.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was thinking about trading ol' Buttercup in for a newer model but after a long debate with myself I said "oh sweet buttercup, I can't quite you" http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/wiseguy.gif

[BGW]

Originally posted by Sandman:
Well, this is exactly why we don't post specifics until we have confirmation. I'm glad that misinformation was not posted on this site yesterday. Posting info from trusted sources, as YJ did, is fine. But you must state your source and the source can't be word of mouth.

Which was exactly what I was trying to say when I said, I am a worrier by nature Pata, so I understand your concern. There have been however a couple of instances in the last couple of months where we have known about the accidents and the people involved before their families have been notified. Imagine being at the post office or the grocery store and having an average anybody walk up to you and say OMG! I just read your son is dead online....or some other such thing.

So-why I don't disagree with the posting of the CHP scanner reports as they are accessible to all and not too detail filled...I do oppose to posting the names and any other known details prior to seeing on the 5 o'clock news etc.

Yes, our natural curiousity and concern get the best of us...I just believe there is a certain amount of respect we should abide by. There is a time for everything.



You just said a whole better!

[beautiful_mess38]

http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/rolleyes2.gif

[jjcheyenne]

Does anyone know about the accident that happened Wed morning on 41 just north of road 200? As I was driving home, there were ambulance, fire trucks and CHP. The radio said they were waiting for a helicopter. I didn't see anything on the news.

[Michelle]

FYI, I don't know but my husband just called me and said he heard in kiss country that there is a head on collision at the broken bit. it is 6:25am and they say it is going ot be closed for at least two hours????

anyone know anything this early other then what my hubby called and told me..????


thanks

[SheilaMae]

Just was informed at the school bus stop there is a two hour bus delay due to the accident - nothing more than that.

[beautiful_mess38]

I wont leave here til about 9am then.

glad I read this I would have been sitting in it.

[Michelle]

Gosh what a mess.. i heard on the kiss country it was two hours and then I had my daughter talk to the kids (yonger ones) bus driver she said a half an hour..
so who knows.. they need to send a recording around to the parents to let us know the exact time.

but praying for the accident and it wasn't to bad. i seen life flight and then a ambulance heading with light to fresno....

[angelforever8]

Type: Traffic Collision - Minor Injuries Location: SR41 JNO BROKEN BIT info as of: 2/8/2007 8:52:10 AM


ADDITIONAL DETAILS
7:19AM BOTH SUBJS IN TOYT WERE AIRLIFTED TO FRESNO
6:54AM SIGALERT CANCELLED/HEWAB CANCELLED
6:51AM SB LANES NOW OPEN, NB LANES SHOULD OPEN IS APPROX 5MIN
6:32AM 1039 LINE20 TO S1, HE WILL HANDLE
6:17AM BOTH LANES BLOCKED
6:17AM TMC COPIES--CT SIGN TRUCK IS ENROUTE
6:16AM S1 ADV RDWY WILL BE SHUTDOWN, MINIMUM OF 1HR
6:15AM S1 REQ SIGALERT
6:13AM 1039 TECHNIQUE TOWING
6:13AM 1039 BULLDOG TOWING
6:06AM 1039 MRA EMS
6:06AM PER CITZ THAT STOPPED BY THE OFC 2 SUBJ IN THE VEH THAT APPEAR TO NOT BE MOVING
5:58AM RD BLOCKED
5:58AM 2 CARS, HEAD ON
RESPONDING OFFICERS STATUS
6:14AM CHP Unit On Scene



From the CHP Traffic Incident Information Page
CHP (http://cad.chp.ca.gov/)

[Michelle]

OMgosh why didn't i remember to go to the website and get the info.. I am such a dork...LOL

thanks

[Newcomer]

What suprises me is this text taken from above.

Type: Traffic Collision - Minor Injuries Location: SR41 JNO BROKEN BIT info as of: 2/8/2007 8:52:10 AM


ADDITIONAL DETAILS
7:19AM BOTH SUBJS IN TOYT WERE AIRLIFTED TO FRESNO


If the Injuries were Minor why the Airlift?

[Yosemite_Wolf]

any info on the accident on 7 Feb just north of road 200? As we drove passed, Cal Trans was sweeping up glass, and we saw two vehicles facing north off the road in the grass.

[Ironhorse]

Originally posted by Newcomer:
What suprises me is this text taken from above.

Type: Traffic Collision - Minor Injuries Location: SR41 JNO BROKEN BIT info as of: 2/8/2007 8:52:10 AM


ADDITIONAL DETAILS
7:19AM BOTH SUBJS IN TOYT WERE AIRLIFTED TO FRESNO


If the Injuries were Minor why the Airlift?

That might have been the dispatch entry for the initial information received from the reporting party, then when CHP arrived on scene, they might have found that the injuries were more serious than originally thought. We used to get things reported like that all the time. Or there might have been a possibility that the injuries were more serious, but no one could tell for sure (like head injuries), so they decided to airlift.

[Patagoniamaniac]

cell phones! I bet they are the cause of many of the accidents occuring no doubt..can't wait for the law to take effect...it will save many lives....

[Ironhorse]

Originally posted by Yosemite_Wolf:
any info on the accident on 7 Feb just north of road 200? As we drove passed, Cal Trans was sweeping up glass, and we saw two vehicles facing north off the road in the grass.

Is this the one?

http://www.maderatribune.com/news/newsview.asp?c=205715

[angelforever8]

Originally posted by Newcomer:
If the Injuries were Minor why the Airlift?

I thought the same thing

[Yosemite_Wolf]

Thats the one Ironhorse! It was weird seeing both cars facing north... now I see why, the truck was rearended.

Pata, this AM in YLP I was turning onto the parkway from the church/postal station and saw this chick in a SUV turning left .... with a cell phone perched between shoulder and ear and a cigarette in one hand... the other on the steering wheel... all while making a left turn.

[citizen]

Originally posted by Patagoniamaniac:
cell phones! I bet they are the cause of many of the accidents occuring no doubt..can't wait for the law to take effect...it will save many lives....

How many people get in accidents while changing music in the CD player in their car? I know of more CD related accidents than cell phone related accidents. Should we make that illegal?

[Yosemite_Wolf]

Citizen... you shouldnt be yakking on the cell phone or changing CDs while driving.. or eating, or applying makeup etc etc. I think we should make Makeup applying whilst driving illegal too. Changing a CD is momentary... yakking on one's mobile phone is more time consuming.

[Michelle]

I bet people will confess to changing CD music and the radio station way before they say there were on the cell phone. I have been behind people talking on the cell phone and they are so into the call they aren't even going the speed limit ...

Cell phones are so back when trying to dial or just talking it takes your attention away from the road. When my husband was in his accident the first thing the officer asked him was if he was on the cell phone. he told him know and he wanted to know where the phone was and hubby showed him in his pocket but the phone was dead...

He told hubby that there is more accidents with cell phones anymore then anything else. he see the young drivers trying to dial or fighting on the phone they are part of an accident.
I had a lady who was turning in front of me and almost hit the front of my car because she was so involved in her conversation she wasn't paying attention.. yeah i was mad and I was yelling at her to get off the phone and pay attention....

I will pull over and talk or stay parked and talkor wait till i get home... but i try not to get on my cell phone until i can talk....

[Patagoniamaniac]

Originally posted by citizen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Patagoniamaniac:
cell phones! I bet they are the cause of many of the accidents occuring no doubt..can't wait for the law to take effect...it will save many lives....

How many people get in accidents while changing music in the CD player in their car? I know of more CD related accidents than cell phone related accidents. Should we make that illegal? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe...I was rear ended by some guy in Fresno because he was messing with his music...when the cops and ambulance came to take him away...the music was blaring so loud...he didnt even noticed I was stopped in front of him...Just curious......How do you know the statistics of more people dying of messing with their stereo's than their cell phones...I'm really curious...

[Michelle]

maybe the insurance company can let you know how to find out.. that would be intresting to find out...

the % of cell phone accidents and %of accidents with radio's..

[beautiful_mess38]

http://www.iii.org/media/hottopics/insurance/cellphones/

[citizen]

Originally posted by Patagoniamaniac:
Maybe...I was rear ended by some guy in Fresno because he was messing with his music...when the cops and ambulance came to take him away...the music was blaring so loud...he didnt even noticed I was stopped in front of him...Just curious......How do you know the statistics of more people dying of messing with their stereo's than their cell phones...I'm really curious...

I don't know statistics of more people dying with music than cell phones. What I said was that I know of more cases of music related accidents than cell phone related ones. I'm talking about personal experiences with friends and family. I know of several CD changing related accidents. Now, I know of another since it happened to you. I don't personally know of any cell phone related accidents. But that's just me and my experiences.

I also agree with what you people are saying. It drives me crazy when people do not pay attention when they are driving. I have seen people pull out in front of others when they were not paying attention. I saw a woman in a silver minivan do this on 426 near John West yesterday. She was not on a phone, eating, changing CD's or doing makeup. She just made a bonehead choice. But the bottom line is that there are many things that distract people while driving. This lady was apparently distracted by her own thoughts. Where do we draw the line when making new laws? I believe there is already a driving law in place that prevents people from being distracted while driving... like eating, putting on makeup or changing CD's. I feel that the cell phone thing would fall into that category. Why do we need another specific law for it and why don't we need a specific law for music, eating, etc.

Some people can talk on a phone and drive with no problem. Everyone should know their own limitations and abilities. It's sad that the government has to make laws for us that treat us like we are stupid and not capable of making our own decisions.

[Dee]

I don't know what law you are referring to about being distracted (eating, applying makeup) but as we all know, the cell phone law takes effect in 2008 and I am very happy about it. People just do not focus on their driving when they are dialing the cell or talking.Originally posted by citizen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Patagoniamaniac:
Maybe...I was rear ended by some guy in Fresno because he was messing with his music...when the cops and ambulance came to take him away...the music was blaring so loud...he didnt even noticed I was stopped in front of him...Just curious......How do you know the statistics of more people dying of messing with their stereo's than their cell phones...I'm really curious...

I don't know statistics of more people dying with music than cell phones. What I said was that I know of more cases of music related accidents than cell phone related ones. I'm talking about personal experiences with friends and family. I know of several CD changing related accidents. Now, I know of another since it happened to you. I don't personally know of any cell phone related accidents. But that's just me and my experiences.

I also agree with what you people are saying. It drives me crazy when people do not pay attention when they are driving. I have seen people pull out in front of others when they were not paying attention. I saw a woman in a silver minivan do this on 426 near John West yesterday. She was not on a phone, eating, changing CD's or doing makeup. She just made a bonehead choice. But the bottom line is that there are many things that distract people while driving. This lady was apparently distracted by her own thoughts. Where do we draw the line when making new laws? I believe there is already a driving law in place that prevents people from being distracted while driving... like eating, putting on makeup or changing CD's. I feel that the cell phone thing would fall into that category. Why do we need another specific law for it and why don't we need a specific law for music, eating, etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Yosemite_Wolf]

you brought up the specific act thing Citizen

[BGW]

It isn't the actual conversation on the cell phone while driving that distracts me; it is the trying to cradle the phone between my ear and shoulder while completing a maneuver that had required both hands to execute that causes me to become a questionable driver.

The Auto Insurance Agengies have been lobbying for 12+ years to make it illegal for people to smoke while driving. They claim that the amount of accidents caused by a dropped cigarette or the act of lighting the cigarette its self causes more accidents than the Insurance Companies feel they shouldn't be paying out on what amounts to, for lack of a better term, 'driver stupidity'

I have been smoking longer than I have been driving, and one would think after 27 years I would have had at least one close call. Yes, rarely, but I have dropped my cigarette on the floor board. I just don't go grabbing for it!

I sure more people own and drive with cell phones than there are people who drive while smoking. From the Insurance Companies profit margin point of view...well, you do the math!

[oakhurstleaf]

I read somewhere not too long ago that a person's astrological sign may have a lot to do with their driving abilities, reaction time, road-rage, common sense usage, and what not....I've heard an Aries driver is the one to keep your distance from. And Leos are the best-behaved on the road. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/laugh.gif Hmmm, so should an Aries have a higher insurance premium?

[citizen]

Originally posted by Yosemite_Wolf:
you brought up the specific act thing Citizen

What???? Patagona brought up the cell phone thing.

[beautiful_mess38]

http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/rofl5.gif I'm an aries. I've had only 1 car accident and my last ticket was in 1993 for expired tags.

I'm a very cautious driver. I drive defensevly and offensevly.

[Dodgergirl]

Well, damn... I frequently change my CD's, usually have a drink in there somewhere.... am occasionally beating a kid or two... use my cell phone & I drive a stick! Good thing my passenger usually shifts for me... http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/wink3.gif

Oh, and for those who've forgotten...I'm a Virgo if that matters. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/laugh.gif

[oakhurstleaf]

My apologies Aries' people...

I found what I read before, and I was off. Aries' are the third worst drivers. Aquarius comes in 2nd and Libra is apparently the worst of all. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/laugh.gif

To check out your astrological driving style, check out http://www.astrostar.com/Astrology-and-Driving.htm

[Kahlua Kid]

Originally posted by oakhurstleaf:
My apologies Aries' people...

I found what I read before, and I was off. Aries' are the third worst drivers. Aquarius comes in 2nd and Libra is apparently the worst of all. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/laugh.gif

To check out your astrological driving style, check out http://www.astrostar.com/Astrology-and-Driving.htm

Now that just cracks me up! Newcomer is a Libra and he's a great driver! In the 20 years I've known him, he has not had one accident and I don't even think a moving violation -

Me... Leo... and I've had my share of accidents when I was younger 16-25... and lets not even talk about how many tickets I've had or talked my way out of... I do admit, when I was young, I was a bit wild in my driving ways... I have shaped up, but, not as much as I should.

[Ironhorse]

"9th Worst Position : Virgo - Aug. 23 to Sept. 22
Virgos have a nervous attention to detail. They made the cover of the Car Carma book. They'd be slamming their brakes on to avoid hitting a squirrel but cause a 10-car pile-up."

Okay, ya'll better be careful if you're behind me and a squirrel crosses the road. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/wink3.gif

[Patagoniamaniac]

Originally posted by Ironhorse:
"9th Worst Position : Virgo - Aug. 23 to Sept. 22
Virgos have a nervous attention to detail. They made the cover of the Car Carma book. They'd be slamming their brakes on to avoid hitting a squirrel but cause a 10-car pile-up."

Okay, ya'll better be careful if you're behind me and a squirrel crosses the road. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/wink3.gif

That would be me...

[BGW]

Curbing "iPod Oblivion" On City Streets?

NEW York, Feb. 7, 2007

(CBS) First it was cell phones in cars, then trans fats. Now, a new plan is on the table to ban electronic gadget use while crossing New York City streets.

CBS station WCBS-TV in New York reports that legislation will be introduced in Albany on Wednesday to lay a $100 fine on pedestrians succumbing to what State Sen. Carl Kruger calls iPod oblivion.

"We're talking about people walking sort of tuned in and in the process of being tuned in, tuned out," Kruger said. "Tuned out to the world around them. They're walking into speeding cars. They're walking into buses. They're walking into one another and it's creating a number of fatalities that have been documented right here in the city."

Pedestrians have been hurt and killed in the manner Kruger describes. Not surprisingly, though, iPod users are less than thrilled with the senator's proposal.

"That's not a distraction," said one woman, iPod securely implanted in her ears. "You have your iPod in your ears and you're crossing the street, you are looking with your eyes. You don't have to hear anything, really ... I guess."

Read More:Complete Article (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/07/national/main2443378.shtml)
________________________________________________

http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/no.gif This proposal is the equivalent of forbidding all deaf and blind people from walking around out of doors!! I am curious to see how far this Bill will get in the N.Y. Senate.

[Michelle]

gosh it is a good thing I am a cancer I guess...LOL

Well I am not the greatest driver. but since I have had kids I try and be aware of what goes on around me when driving. I don't have one accident on my record, two tickets in my life one was not stopping at the stop sign when I was 19-20 years old. and a speeding tickent when I was 22 I think. so that is it. but I try and be careful. I did smoke years ago but rarely smoked when driving.
But it is mostly the other drivers I am fearful about. My oldest daughter will not drive till she is 18. none of my kids will drive till they are 18. I think 16 is to young and they think nothing ever will happen to them and they don't even understand the dangers of driving and I want my kids to learn that driving is a privilage not something that you just get to do in life.

But that is me.....

[jjcheyenne]

I was almost in a head on collision Friday morning on the way home from work. I was on 41 going up about 3 or 4 miles north of the 22 mile house just where the rocks on both sides of the road are. I was coming aroung a curve. There was a line of about 50 cars going south. As I entered the curve, a white SUV going south bound came over the double yellow line, straight at me. The driver missed the curve and was going straight, right in my path. I had just enough room to swerve out of her way, almose going over the side of the cliff. And guess what she was doing??? SHE WAS ON A CELL PHONE!! This is not the first time this has happened. But it was the closest I have ever come to getting killed. And each close call I have had, it is ALWAYS with someone on a cell phone. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/shout.gif

[Michelle]

Originally posted by jjcheyenne:
I was almost in a head on collision Friday morning on the way home from work. I was on 41 going up about 3 or 4 miles north of the 22 mile house just where the rocks on both sides of the road are. I was coming aroung a curve. There was a line of about 50 cars going south. As I entered the curve, a white SUV going south bound came over the double yellow line, straight at me. The driver missed the curve and was going straight, right in my path. I had just enough room to swerve out of her way, almose going over the side of the cliff. And guess what she was doing??? SHE WAS ON A CELL PHONE!! This is not the first time this has happened. But it was the closest I have ever come to getting killed. And each close call I have had, it is ALWAYS with someone on a cell phone. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/shout.gif

THANK GOD YOU ARE HERE TO TYPE THIS TO US.!!!!

you know I think that there should be NO PASSING unless it is a double lane so we can pass safely... people are so in a rush to go no place... the only thing they will be in is a body bag or put someone else in one. I am so scared for my kids to drive. I really am.....

[themartinlady]

Has the trial taken place?

[Patagoniamaniac]

keeping you and your family in my prayers..I can't imagine the pain you have experienced from all this...I pray God gives you and your famil strength through all this and healing.

[somerbreze]

There is a preliminary hearing scheduled for March 6th.

[somerbreze]

For those of you that are still interested, here's an update as to what occured at the prelim hearing on March 6 & 7. For those who are not, please simply move from this message board & don't respond. Due to a disasterous technicality because the toxicologist was in non-compliance in a court order to provide certain documents, all of Isaac's felonies were dropped down to one misdemeanor of vehicular manslaughter. (no dui, no gross negligence, no great bodily injuries). But guess what folks, THAT DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACTS. Isaac was high and negligent. And Isaac killed my sister because of it. I have to keep faith that everything is for a reason. Next court date is March 29. If Isaac does not plead guilty to his little slap on the wrist, it will still go to trial. Our system is pretty much a disappointment as it still protects the criminal. We lost the felony case NOT because it couldn't be proven he was high, but because the toxicologist didn't do his job and his expert testimony was dismissed. What a world we live in. Please, only those that actually have something meaningful to say should be responding to this post. This was like starting the grieving process all over again for my family. Oh and by the way, those who think Isaac is remorseful, he doodled on pad of paper all day. Oh yea, real remorseful. Yes, I'm angry. I'm angry because our system is a failure! Because someone killed my sister and a techicality may let him get away with murder.

[somerbreze]

FYI: these court dates are located at the Sierra Division (Bass Lake) Court House, minutes from Oakhurst (for those who want to know).

[Dodgergirl]

I am so sorry for what is happening to you & your family. It's wrong that the very laws which are supposed to keep us safe are used against us and effectively, let a lot of guilty people out on the streets.
Is there any way you can take him to Civil court once the Criminal case is decided?

[somerbreze]

Thank you for your supportive words. We do already have 2 civil suits. One for each passenger.

[John @ 3300ft.]

From Fresno Bee online:
A 44-year-old Oakhurst woman died Sunday night when her vehicle traveled off a road and slammed into a large oak tree northeast of Oakhurst, authorities said.

The woman, whose identity was being withheld until her family could be notified, was driving too fast on Road 632, also known as Sky Ranch Road, when she lost control in a left curve, according to the California Highway Patrol. The 2005 Chevrolet pickup she was driving ran off the road after she swerved right, overcorrected left and crossed over the westbound lane.

The wreck was reported at 6:31 p.m. near Buckskin Lane.

[angelforever8]

>.< So many fatal accidents this weekend.

[Yosemite_Wolf]

Thats scarey!

[Ironhorse]

Some illegal with no license and no insurance wiped out my parents Tahoe yesterday, by the old Bible Land property. They're okay thank God! Came out into their lane to avoid hitting the car in front of them (A CHP had mad a U-turn in front of that car) and hit my parents vehicle, wiped out the whole drivers side and spun them around. They've only had the Tahoe about 3 weeks. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/sad3.gif

[monkey]

Wow, I'm glad they wern't hurt.

[Yosemite_Wolf]

You mean to say that a CHP caused an accident? Mmmmmmm Id be raising some heck with the State of California!!

[angelforever8]

Originally posted by Ironhorse:
Some illegal with no license and no insurance wiped out my parents Tahoe yesterday, by the old Bible Land property. They're okay thank God! Came out into their lane to avoid hitting the car in front of them (A CHP had mad a U-turn in front of that car) and hit my parents vehicle, wiped out the whole drivers side and spun them around. They've only had the Tahoe about 3 weeks. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/sad3.gif


I drove past that on my way to class yesterday. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/sad3.gif Didn't look too good. Glad they are okay.

[Ironhorse]

Originally posted by Yosemite_Wolf:
You mean to say that a CHP caused an accident? Mmmmmmm Id be raising some heck with the State of California!!

Yep, that's what my dad and several witnesses said. The CHP turned in front of the oncoming traffic too close, that car put on it's brakes and the one behind them was either following too close or not paying attention, couldn't stop in time, jerked their steering wheel and came over into my parents lane and hit them. It will be interesting to see how the report reads. I guess the silver lining was at least a cop was right there http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/freak.gif The idjit that actually hit them wanted his van towed to his house!!!!! Yeah, right, no license, no insurance, he's on his way to jail, suuuurrrreee they're going to tow it to his home. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/rolleyes2.gif

[Ironhorse]

[/QUOTE]I drove past that on my way to class yesterday. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/sad3.gif Didn't look too good. Glad they are okay.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, luckily no one was hurt, just shaken up. Luckily my dad has slowed down when the CHP made his U-turn, if he'd been going faster, well, someone might have been hurt. He was worried that I would see it on my way to Fresno and freak out, but I had come down earlier than usual that day. I'm glad I didn't see it, he's right, I probably would have freaked out when I recognized the car.

[beautiful_mess38]

This morning coming home from Oakhurst there was a very bad accident infront of the Broken Bit. I saw the car being towed away. The front end was smashed in. I thought great another head on. As I reached the Broken Bit the tow truck was pulling a motorcycle up the bank. The damn thing was mangled so badley I couldnt even tell what color the gas tank was.
Traffic is backed up 41 both ways and 415.

[angelforever8]

Originally posted by beautiful_mess38:
This morning coming home from Oakhurst there was a very bad accident infront of the Broken Bit. I saw the car being towed away. The front end was smashed in. I thought great another head on. As I reached the Broken Bit the tow truck was pulling a motorcycle up the bank. The damn thing was mangled so badley I couldnt even tell what color the gas tank was.
Traffic is backed up 41 both ways and 415.


>.< seems like there have been a lot of motorcycle accidents lately. My friend just passed away a little over a week ago when he crashed his motorcycle on Rd. 416. You have to be careful when you are driving anything... especially motorcycles... http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/sad3.gif

[Yosemite_Wolf]

lots of young kids out there think they are invinsible on a moterbike..... but there are a lot of cars out there with drivers who don't give a damn about moterbike riders.... Same goes for ppl on bicycles.. I can't tell ya how many drivers like to see how close they can get to ppl on bicycles! grrrr Makes me mad.

[SheilaMae]

Originally posted by beautiful_mess38:
This morning coming home from Oakhurst there was a very bad accident infront of the Broken Bit. I saw the car being towed away. The front end was smashed in. I thought great another head on. As I reached the Broken Bit the tow truck was pulling a motorcycle up the bank. The damn thing was mangled so badley I couldnt even tell what color the gas tank was.
Traffic is backed up 41 both ways and 415.

Messy - what time was that? I think that may have been the accident Pastor Rick (Journey Vineyard) was in. I've heard that he survived the accident with both legs broken (one requiring surgery) and a broken arm but no life threatening injuries. Miraculous it sounds if his bike was as demolished as you say, huh? Pray for his family - I also heard he was heading to Fresno where his daughter was in the hospital. My heart goes out to his wife with a toddler in one hospital and hubby in another.

[Michelle]

Yes that is my daughter's PE teachers husband. she came home and told me about it and there little baby is sick also... let's all pray for her and the family... ask the lord to keep her strong for her hubby and baby....

[Patagoniamaniac]

Originally posted by SheilaMae:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by beautiful_mess38:
This morning coming home from Oakhurst there was a very bad accident infront of the Broken Bit. I saw the car being towed away. The front end was smashed in. I thought great another head on. As I reached the Broken Bit the tow truck was pulling a motorcycle up the bank. The damn thing was mangled so badley I couldnt even tell what color the gas tank was.
Traffic is backed up 41 both ways and 415.

Messy - what time was that? I think that may have been the accident Pastor Rick (Journey Vineyard) was in. I've heard that he survived the accident with both legs broken (one requiring surgery) and a broken arm but no life threatening injuries. Miraculous it sounds if his bike was as demolished as you say, huh? Pray for his family - I also heard he was heading to Fresno where his daughter was in the hospital. My heart goes out to his wife with a toddler in one hospital and hubby in another. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

WHAT??? omgosh!....this is the first i heard about this...praise God he's ok....

[beautiful_mess38]

must have happend around 10am I drove by at 10:30 am

[Ironhorse]

I hope he and his family all get well soon. Glad that he is "okay", like you say, could have been so much worse.

[angelforever8]

Originally posted by beautiful_mess38:
must have happend around 10am I drove by at 10:30 am

Yeah, it was close to 10am. I believe the chp incident page had said it was reported around 9:48 or something.

[SheilaMae]

Heard this morning Pastor Rick's injuries are less extensive than originally thought - dislocation rather than broken arm and only 1 leg broken and the baby is doing much better - slightly dehydrated but going to be fine. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/happy.gif

[Michelle]

what great news..thank you for updating us on the family...they are still in my prayers ..healing to be easy and keep them strong....

[Patagoniamaniac]

Originally posted by SheilaMae:
Heard this morning Pastor Rick's injuries are less extensive than originally thought - dislocation rather than broken arm and only 1 leg broken and the baby is doing much better - slightly dehydrated but going to be fine. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/happy.gif

Thats because Answers prayers!...hallelujah!

[Ironhorse]

Saturday, March 31, 2007

- Released to the Madera Tribune
Three juveniles spent the morning at UMC following a vehicle accident in Oakhurst. The driver, a 12-year old boy from Coarsegold, is facing several felony charges including vehicle theft.

The passengers in the car were a 13-year-old boy, also from Coarsegold, and a 15-year-old boy from Oakhurst.

According to Deputy Jacob Tallmon, the boy was driving a Ford Explorer in a reckless manner on Highway 49 when deputies tried to pull him over. Instead of yielding, the driver sped off and reportedly crashed 30 seconds later at the intersection of 41 and 49 - hitting a lamp post.

The passenger in the backseat was found wedged between the vehicle's center console unconscious. All three were taken to UMC treated for minor injuries. Two of the three boys were released by 8:30 a.m. The third was scheduled to be released later in the day.

Aside from auto theft, the driver faces charges of failure to yield to a peace officer, wanton disregard for safety, and driving without a license.

[themartinlady]

Has the case come to a final resolution?

[beautiful_mess38]

you know what makes me so mad and why this happens alot. Is because the courts do not keep these b*sterds in jail. What they do is fine the h*ll out of them. Beleave me the spermdoner of my kids should be doing 25 years for all the dui's he's had. instead he does maybe 30 days then alot of fines. He got more days for violating a restraining order then his dui's. Thats sad.
If I was a judge I would do max time for dui's. Get these damn drunks off of our roads. A couple beers for a life doesnt make sense.

[monkey]

The news just said there was an injury accident at Griffin road and 49.

[Newcomer]

Bad Accident on 41 North of O'neals turn off. No specific details yet. People are being routed through O'Neals to get to Oakhurst & Coarsegold. 41 Delay 2 Hrs

[angelforever8]

Incident: 0825 Type: Traffic Collision - Major Injuries Location: SR41 AT ROAD 207 Zoom Map: 8 3D info as of: 5/22/2007 7:37:29 PM
ADDITIONAL DETAILS
7:35PM NOTIFY CT KEEP SIGNS UP FOR ANOTHER 10 MIN TRAFFIC STILL BACKED UP TO ROAD 406
7:32PM BOTH LANES OPEN
7:22PM RDWY OPEN
6:54PM 57-S2 COPIES
6:53PM TECH TOW ADVISING THEY ARE STUCK IN TRAFFIC SR41 AT YLP
6:44PM TMC COPIES
6:43PM PER 57-80 ONE LANE IS OPEN FOR TRAFFIC CONTROL - ALTERNATING TRAFFIC
6:40PM 57-S2 COPIES LINE 36
6:40PM 1039 MADERA SO F/AC TO 1022
6:40PM PER 57-S2 1022 AC
6:37PM 57-81 ENRT REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER
6:36PM HAVE AC RESP
6:36PM TMC COPIES
6:35PM DOCS IS ADVISING THEY ARE STUCK IN TRAFFIC AT SR41 JNO YLP IFO CLARKS AUTO SALES
6:33PM 66-40 AT ROAD 200 DIVERTING TRAFFIC
6:33PM 57-80 COPIES
6:31PM 66-40 COPIES
6:25PM 1039 TECHNIQUE TOW
6:23PM 57-81 COPIES ROLL ANOTHER LT DUTY 1185
6:22PM 1039 BULLDOG TOW THEY ARE 1097 AND WILL TALK TO OFCR
6:21PM 1039 CDF
6:21PM PER 57-80 ADVS CDF THAT THE LZ AT SR41 AND ROAD 200 NOT AVAILABLE DUE TO CONST
6:21PM PER 57-S2 COPIED THAT CDF IS REQING AIR MED
6:20PM BULLDOG IS STUCK IN TRAFFIC - NOW FOLLOWING CHP
6:19PM 1039 CT--ETA 20 MINS
6:18PM ROLL MED DUTY 1185 FOR A MOTORHOME
6:17PM PER 57-S2 NEED TO DIVERT TRAFFIC HAVE CT DIVERT AT ROAD 200 AND AT YOSEMITE SPRINGS PKWAY
6:17PM 1039 CT
6:15PM 1039 DOCS
6:15PM ROLL ANOTHER 1185 NUMEROUS VEHS INVD BOTH LANES BLKED HAVE CT RESP
6:08PM 57-76 COPIES
6:07PM 1039 BULLDOG TOW
6:07PM ADVS BATALLION CHEIF ON SCENE
6:07PM PER MARI CDF,ONE VEH IN RDWY,OTHER OVER SIDE W/PIN IN
6:06PM 57-S2 COPIES ENRT
6:06PM ROLL 1 1185
6:06PM 57-76 SR49 AT COUNTY LINE
6:06PM PEOPLE ARE PINNED IN THE VEH
6:06PM 1039 MRA EMS
6:05PM LINE#2 IS CLOVIS CDF
6:04PM CDF VEH97
6:04PM GRN FORD TAURUS VS ANOTHER VEH


From the chp incident page.

[Kahlua Kid]

Oh Angel, where were you at 6:25 p.m. - I was stuck 10 cars south of the O'Neals turn-off... called Newcomer, to see if any info on Oakurst Forums, he said nothing posted about any accident... then Ambulance went by going south confirmed my suspicions.

Then CHP pulled up and directed us to go up Road 200 and around to Oakhurst... bummer! He told me it would be a 2 hour delay - Looks like they let traffic get going at 7:30ish... would have gotten home earlier had I just pulled over at the carpool parking lot there and waited it out.

I didn't get home til almost 8:00 due to the huge Detour around and down to Coarsegold going up through Northfork and Oakhurst! Well, it was a pretty drive at least!

[Dodgergirl]

Oh Angel, where were you at 6:25 p.m. - I was stuck 6 cars south of the O'Neals turn-off... called Newcomer, he said nothing posted about any accident... then Ambulance went by going south confirmed my suspicions.

Then CHP pulled up and directed us to go up Road 200 and around to Oakhurst... bummer! He told me it would be a 2 hour delay - why the lie??? Looks like they let traffic get going at 7:00ish...

I didn't get home til 7:45 due to the huge Detour around to get back, around and down to Coarsegold going up around Northfork and Oakhurst!

...but did you cut over on the 420? Woulda saved you some time...

[angelforever8]

Oh Angel, where were you at 6:25 p.m. - I was stuck 10 cars south of the O'Neals turn-off... called Newcomer, to see if any info on Oakurst Forums, he said nothing posted about any accident... then Ambulance went by going south confirmed my suspicions.

Then CHP pulled up and directed us to go up Road 200 and around to Oakhurst... bummer! He told me it would be a 2 hour delay - Looks like they let traffic get going at 7:30ish... would have gotten home earlier had I just pulled over at the carpool parking lot there and waited it out.

I didn't get home til almost 8:00 due to the huge Detour around and down to Coarsegold going up through Northfork and Oakhurst! Well, it was a pretty drive at least!


Aww. :( I would have posted sooner if I could have. The only reason I thought to look was because I was in Oakhurst and I saw my dad in his tow truck... I knew it was his "day off" so I figured that something pretty bad had happened.

I had to take that detour once at 1am after I got off work when I was in Fresno... I had to go all the way through North Fork and Oakhurst to get back to Indian Lakes... and at that time I had no clue where I was going... lol.


Glad you made it home okay though... even if it took a little longer... at least you made it safely.

[Kahlua Kid]

Dodge - 420 - Thornberry? I was looking for the turn-off - only have taken it once coming from your side... I thought I saw it, (and I did) but though it was west of the Bass Lake turn-off, not east... now I know - just east!!! I would have taken it, if I'd been sure it was it!

I thought about stopping by your house though to say "hi", but I was already late enough coming home and Newcomer was waiting to pop dinner in the oven!

[Patagoniamaniac]

my friend just drove by a horrible accident on hwy 41. Said the passenger was possibly a teen and most likey dead. dark blue small car.

[Newcomer]

Where?????

[Mysteefied]

Oh my gosh, does anyone have any other info on this!?

[Newcomer]

I just saw it on the news. It was down on 41 by the millerton turn off. It was cleared about 1 1/2 hrs ago. A small blue car and a Motor home hit head on. The person in the car died.

[Mysteefied]

Thank you. Where is the Millerton turn off?

[Newcomer]

down near where the water aquaduct runs under 41 in the flatlands at the stoplight.

[Patagoniamaniac]

yep thats the one...She said the small car hit a motorhome. We think we may possibly know who it is but not certain.

[Mysteefied]

I hope its not who I think ...trying to get ahold of her now

[Mysteefied]

Well, its not who I was thinking, so that is a good thing, hope its not who you think it is too.

[Patagoniamaniac]

has anyone heard anything else about the victim?...who it may be?...I had 2 friends drive by and actually seen the victim. I don't understand why he wasnt covered up...thats a visual that is hard to ever forget.

[Michelle]

www.fresnobee.com

this is all I could find right now...

Driver killed on Hwy. 41

The driver of a Honda Civic was fatally injured when he lost control of his vehicle and drove head-on into a motorhome in Madera County, the California Highway Patrol said.

The collision took place Wednesday on Highway 41 just north of Avenue 12 about 1 p.m. The 28-year-old Honda driver's identity was withheld pending notification of kin.

The driver of the motorhome, David Dolezal, 72, of Harrisburg, Pa., was not injured. His passenger, Angeline Kennedy, 71, suffered minor injuries, the CHP said.

[Patagoniamaniac]

any word or news??

[Mysteefied]

I was told by an eyewitness, that it was a woman and not a man who was killed.
That's all I've heard

[cecutekitten]

I know that this doesnt make a difference but i have to tell you I am so sorry for your loss i cant imagine the pain you feel ... Again i know words cant help but i want you to know people are praying for you to feel some sort of peace...
crystal

[cecutekitten]

if you go back to the 1st post a woman explains what happend it was her sister and neices I tried to write her but im to new on here to do that so some one please go back and give her support...

[Yosemite_Wolf]

Thursday evening, near 6pm, we were headed down to Fresburg when the traffic was at a standstill.... there was a head on accident, prolly close to 22 mile house. We had to U turn and go back to road 200 around to 145 to get to town. Any news on what happened??

[Kim]

I saw one car being towed away that looked like an accordion but didn't hear anything.

[beautiful_mess38]

Went to Fresno this morning, there was another accident at Mama lolly's now Angies.

People need to slow down and pay attention.

[somerbreze]

GRIEVING ALL OVER AGAIN
Justice eludes woman in road death of sister
By VIRGINIA HENNESSEY
Herald Salinas Bureau
Monterey County Herald
Article Last Updated:08/26/2007 01:27:55 AM PDT

Anne Brooks remembers her sister as her best friend and the glue who held their family together with Christmas cookies and scrumptious meals.
Three years ago today, on a winding road outside Yosemite, Brooks and her family lost their touchstone. Darlene Estes of Salinas was killed in a head-on collision with a driver suspected of being high on marijuana.

Devastated, the family hoped they could find solace in the criminal prosecution of the man, Isaac Wenglin of Van Nuys. Instead their grief was compounded earlier this year when a Madera County judge was forced to drop all charges against the 26-year-old because of a technicality.

The blow, said Brooks of Monterey, was like losing her only sister again.

"It was like just starting all over," she said.

Brooks said her nightmare began with what was supposed to be a vacation for her and her sister. Estes, 57, a courier at Community Hospital of the Monterey Peninsula, was taking her 15-year-old son and Brooks' daughter on a four-day trip to Yosemite. Brooks had taken a couple of days off from her job so she could enjoy the break.

The threesome left about 9:30 in the morning. At 2:30 Brooks got a call from her daughter, Brandi, who she assumed was calling to say they'd arrived safely.

Instead, Brandi told her mother they had been in a horrible accident. She and her cousin, Ruben, were at a local hospital and they didn't know where Ruben's mother was.

"I was in shock," Brooks said. "It's not what you expect to hear."

Brooks learned later that emergency workers had to use the Jaws of Life to extract her unconscious sister from the wreckage of her Dodge Neon. She was pronounced dead two hours later at a nearby trauma center.

Wenglin, who had crossed the center divider, sustained only minor injuries. He was arrested at the hospital after police found marijuana and hashish in his van. He argued Estes' death was an accident and that he was allowed to have the drugs under a medical marijuana prescription, which he provided to police.

Wenglin could not be reached for comment. His lawyer did not return phone calls.

Charged with felony vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence and while under the influence of drugs, Wenglin faced a potential sentence of six to 10 years in prison. Even if he were convicted only of the "lesser included" misdemeanor manslaughter and DUI charges, Madera County prosecutor Jennifer Blackburn told Brooks, Wenglin could serve a year in jail.

"I was hoping it would be at least that (one year)," she said. "It wasn't what I wanted, but I wanted at least that."

It took more than two years for the case to reach preliminary hearing. Blackburn said Friday the hearing was delayed while she and defense attorney Richard Berman of Fresno tried to resolve the case.

"It's not unusual in serious cases to take awhile to get to preliminary," she said.

At the hearing in March, Blackburn presented testimony by a Department of Justice toxicologist who said that marijuana has a deleterious effect on driving. However, Blackburn said, because the expert did not provide evidence to support his opinion to the defense, Judge Charles Wieland rejected his testimony and ruled there was insufficient evidence to hold Wenglin on the felony charges.

Brooks, who identified the witness as Timothy Apple, said Wieland was not happy with the outcome and berated Blackburn and the toxicologist for being unprepared.

Then Berman moved to drop all the charges, correctly arguing that the one-year statute of limitations had run out on the misdemeanor charges.

In June, an angry Wieland was forced to dismiss the case. Blackburn confirmed that the outraged judge said from the bench that he intended to write a letter to the Justice Department to complain about the toxicologist's conduct.

Blackburn said she could not reveal the toxicologist's name because she'd been ordered by the Justice Department not to discuss the case, which it is investigating. The Attorney General's Office did not respond to requests for comment this week.

Cautioning that he was not familiar with the details of the case, Monterey County Assistant District Attorney Berkley Brannon said Madera County prosecutors could have refiled the felony charges and tried to correct their expert testimony before the statute of limitations ran out on those counts.

"I'm disappointed that justice was not served in this case," Blackburn said.

So is Brooks.

"It really hurts, the way I think about the court system. We're supposed to trust that," she said. "It makes you understand why people take the law into their own hands."

Mostly she's disappointed that Wenglin never accepted responsibility for her sister's death. The family recently settled a civil case for about $100,000, which will be paid by his insurance company. It will be split among Estes' three children, Brandi Brooks and their lawyer.

"What I really wanted him to do was admit guilt, which he never did," Brooks said of Wenglin. "At the preliminary hearing, he doodled all day. I never saw any remorse. I just wanted him to be a man and step up to the plate and he never did it."

The family wrote victim-impact letters to read at his sentencing. He never heard them.

"Every day is a struggle for me," Brooks wrote. "You have cut me off from ever having my sister in my life. You have cut me off from ever enjoying my life as it used to be."

Her mother, Camille Wernsing of Seaside, told him of how her eldest daughter organized the family's holidays and did most of the cooking.

"She was our leader and the best cook," she wrote. "We don't get together as much anymore.

"You have no idea what it is like to be at your own child's funeral," she wrote. "You have no idea what it is like to have part of your soul taken from you."

Estes' ashes were scattered at sea. Today her family will return on a chartered boat to sprinkle flower petals in her memory.



Virginia Hennessey can be reached at 753-6751 or vhennessey@montereyherald.com.

[Yosemite_Wolf]

Went to Fresno this morning, there was another accident at Mama lolly's now Angies.

People need to slow down and pay attention.

was it started by a toyota with the lic plate "REMOVED BY ADMIN" ?

[monkey]

Wow, somerbreze, I'm so sorry to hear about this. I'm sure I have no idea of the depth of your pain. You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.

[Sewmaui]

was it started by a toyota with the lic plate "REMOVED BY ADMIN" ?

This is my car and it was 300 miles away on the date of this mentioned accident.....what is your obsession with posting my license plate on this forum???

[beautiful_mess38]

because she had a incedent with you tailgating her up 41 and into ylp.

[Sewmaui]

because she had a incedent with you tailgating her up 41 and into ylp.


The real truth is , I never was behind her...if she owns a blue small station wagon...it was her who was tailgating me up to Hillside Market in YLP. I already explained the merging when the lane ended on the 41 in the YLPonline forum..... In both these forums, no mention was given that I was tailgating her so please write the truth or correct the error.....my friends have commented how sometimes I give too much room between me and the car in front of me. My car came up in a "topic of tailgaters" in the other forum but the context was about what someone observed when I merged, no mention of tailgating was posted. I agree when people who blantantly do not respect others and run stop signs, speed, and tailgate constantly should be caught...... Maybe she did not like how the merge was done from her view but she was a couple of cars behind(if this is the same person who wrote on the other forum) the merge was completed like most merges...with no incident. Don't sweat the small stuff.

[Yosemite_Wolf]

You were seen passing three cars when the merge lane was ending. You were driving in the emergency line along side another vehicle until another vehicle was nice enough to let you in. You caused a slowing of three cars behind you. You are local and know that the lane would be merging into one, but still you insisted on passing a line of cars "just to get a few cars ahead". It is insane! Esp since that stretch of road is a major speed trap with the CHP frequently camped out looking for speeders and unsafe drivers. I know that traffic was hell going up the hill that day, but hell.. does that mean you need to nearly cause an accident just to get a few car lengths ahead??

[Ironhorse]

Okay, I think it's time to step in and request that YW and SewMaui should take this discussion of this particular incident to PM's. I don't think it's appropriate to have a heated discussion on this on these forums, that's not the purpose of this thread. If either of you have any further comments or questions of me or each other, I'll be happy to discuss it via PM. Thanks for your cooperation in this matter.

[Yosemite_Wolf]

no more posts here from me. I gave one reply. This is a local forums and when we find a local problem.. we post it here.

[Sandman]

Thanks Ironhorse for doing a terrific job Moderating this thread. Also, thank you Yosemite Wolf for agreeing to end this conversation. Although these forums are here to discuss local issues, personal information like license plate numbers should not be posted. Also, we should try to stick to the facts on these kind of topics. This forums are here for locals and visitors to get local news and info, not for locals to argue with one another. That type of argument is best left to private topics since the general public does not benefit by reading it. If it's a personal issue that doesn't concern the general public, Private Topics are the best way to go. Thanks again.

Like Ironhorse said, comments or questions can be directed to Ironhorse (or myself) via PM but this topic is over on the public forums. Negative Reputation points will be given to any member that continues the conversation.

[Yosemite_Wolf]

too many accidents to even post this am. Seems the rains hit and people forget to slow down. hwy 41 had accidents all up and down it this AM.

[Sandman]

Thanks for the report YW. The roads are going to be very slippery today since this is the first rain of the season. Everyone be extra careful today!!!

[Sandman]

According to the CHP report the accident occured at approximately 8:25. Castellanos was westbound on Pine Mountain Drive when her vehicle drifted off the north edge of the roadway. via KVML (http://www.topix.net/r/07lUe3DDGoDdEToce6O4L2eDlWpv2EqZbDcRkuhTUTxcIALf5n u1LU=2FTesZtmX87z2mpT3OQWWSbl77TZ=2Fdn99Pe89tQqZY3 hcM0wAqd70eZ1fYQCMLRvyoBZASb6FPxs)


More... (http://www.topix.net/city/groveland-ca/2007/08/groveland-woman-killed-in-single-vehicle-accident?fromrss=1)

[Michelle]

I heard about an accident that happen the other day in ahwahnee with a mother and her daughter. I heard the daughter was a girl that worked at Von's , sadly enough I should not name her name(thank you YW) and she was a bright beautiful girl. I did not know her other then seeing her work at the store. she always had a smile on her face. she I think was from Mariposa and just graduated. Please pray for her and her mother who is now from the accident not able to walk and now they will be turning off her life support today or already did. For some reason this has been heavy on my heart and in my thoughts since I heard.
I wish there was more I could do for the family but am sad in the fact that such a young girl who has just started her life had now had her life taken from her.
please pray and if anyone knows of this accident please post more info on it.
praying for her mother , family, and friends. :cry:

[Kim]

Have been dealing with this particular tragedy much more than I've wanted to today....please everyone, slow the hell down on these roads. I don't want to be having the talks I've been having today with any of your families.

[Michelle]

I am sorry you have to do what you do KIM... it really makes me sad...
I went and was able to see who she was at the store... I thought it was her.
I only knew her thru her working there but was such a pretty young woman who always had a smile on her face...

I will pray for you to have the strength to do what you do.... thank you for being the person you are to be able to do this....those talks can't be nothing be heartbreaking.....

Can you say what happen? what the cause of the accident was and the info...

[Yosemite_Wolf]

I heard about an accident that happen the other day in ahwahnee with a mother and her daughter. I heard the daughter was a girl that worked at Von's , sadly enough I should not name her name(thank you YW) and she was a bright beautiful girl. I did not know her other then seeing her work at the store. she always had a smile on her face. she I think was from Mariposa and just graduated. Please pray for her and her mother who is now from the accident not able to walk and now they will be turning off her life support today or already did. For some reason this has been heavy on my heart and in my thoughts since I heard.
I wish there was more I could do for the family but am sad in the fact that such a young girl who has just started her life had now had her life taken from her.
please pray and if anyone knows of this accident please post more info on it.
praying for her mother , family, and friends. :cry:


You are welcome Michelle.

[Kim]

No, can't say anything more. Not at this time.

[beautiful_mess38]

At about 1pm on Sunday, ,Sandra Green, 41 of Mariposa was traveling southbound on Hwy 49 in h er 2005 Jeep, when for unknown reasons , her vehicle left the roadway, hit a dirt embankment, rolled over, landing in the northbound lane just as a 1995 GMC driven by Robin Ralston 54, of Ahwahnee, was approaching. The two vehicles collided. According to CHP reports both Ms. Green and a passenger in her vehicle, Ashley Sala 18 of Mariposa recieved major injuries in the crash, and one of them was flown by CHP helicoper to CRMC in Fresno. John Danley, 36 of Nashville Tn a passenger in the Ralston vehicle and the others were all transported by Sierra ambulance to CRMC in Fresno. The collision is still under investigation.

ps..is it true that Ashley passed away?

[Kim]

No. That's why I can't say any more.

[Mysteefied]

I'll keep them all in my prayers

[Kim]

Ashley was taken off life support early this morning and her organs donated, as well as her tissue and corneas. You can read about Ashley and organ donation in the Mariposa Gazette today, as well as watching Channel 30 soon for the story of this sweet young lady and her strong family.

[beautiful_mess38]

I'm so sorry for the family and you to Kim. However; life will go on with organ donation.

[BGW]

Very nice article

http://www.mariposagazette.com/news/contentview.asp?c=224868

[Michelle]

thank you for posting that... it is a beautiful write up for such a beautiful person all around... will keep the family in my prayers and friends...

still sadly enough my heart is heavy with sadness for this family....
:cry:

[Newcomer]

Very nice article

http://www.mariposagazette.com/news/contentview.asp?c=224868

I could not get that link to work??? hmmm

[Newcomer]

The Gazette site was down for a bit. it's back up now.

[sharon]

CHP website showing the major accident, below is the rundown. This is all I could locate on a major accident tonight


Incident: 0707 Type: Traffic Collision - Major Injuries Location: LONG HOLLOW DR AT DEEP FOREST DR Zoom Map: 8 3C info as of: 9/18/2007 6:41:20 PM
ADDITIONAL DETAILS
6:40PM BULLDOG LL ADV G STUCK IN TRAFFIC, ON LONG HOLLOW NOW ALMOST THERE
6:14PM 1039 BULLDOG
6:14PM ROLL 1185
5:40PM FIRE 1097 W/CPR IN PROGRESS
5:35PM RP IS AT 42422 DEEP FORREST , ADV G 1 SUBJ LAYING IN RDWY WAS THROWN FM VEH
5:34PM 1039 EMS WITH UPDATE AND THAT HELO NEEDED
5:34PM 1039 CDF
5:31PM THIS IS A ROLL OVER
5:26PM 1039 MRA EMS
5:26PM RP REQ 1141 IMMEDIATELY
5:26PM RP ADVS YOUNG BOY LAYING IN STREET HURT,NOT HIT BY CAR
RESPONDING OFFICERS STATUS
5:35PM CHP Unit On Scene
5:54PM CHP Unit Enroute

[Sandman]

I believe I was just watching CBS 47 news at 6 when the broke in with a special report...

Accident in YLP Area in Coarsegold with 3 teens ejected from the vehicle and one death. :(

[Sandman]

Here is a direct link to this incident. http://cad.chp.ca.gov/iiqr.asp?Center=FRCC&LogNumber=0707D0918&t=Traffic%20Collision%20-%20Major%20Injuries&l=LONG%20HOLLOW%20DR%20AT%20DEEP%20FOREST%20DR&b=8%203C

CHP website showing the major accident, below is the rundown. This is all I could locate on a major accident tonight


Incident: 0707 Type: Traffic Collision - Major Injuries Location: LONG HOLLOW DR AT DEEP FOREST DR Zoom Map: 8 3C info as of: 9/18/2007 6:41:20 PM
ADDITIONAL DETAILS
6:40PM BULLDOG LL ADV G STUCK IN TRAFFIC, ON LONG HOLLOW NOW ALMOST THERE
6:14PM 1039 BULLDOG
6:14PM ROLL 1185
5:40PM FIRE 1097 W/CPR IN PROGRESS
5:35PM RP IS AT 42422 DEEP FORREST , ADV G 1 SUBJ LAYING IN RDWY WAS THROWN FM VEH
5:34PM 1039 EMS WITH UPDATE AND THAT HELO NEEDED
5:34PM 1039 CDF
5:31PM THIS IS A ROLL OVER
5:26PM 1039 MRA EMS
5:26PM RP REQ 1141 IMMEDIATELY
5:26PM RP ADVS YOUNG BOY LAYING IN STREET HURT,NOT HIT BY CAR
RESPONDING OFFICERS STATUS
5:35PM CHP Unit On Scene
5:54PM CHP Unit Enroute

[Mysteefied]

Thanks for the link!

[Patagoniamaniac]

My son just gave me the news that a yhs student died in an accident tonight. If you want his name pm me.

[Mysteefied]

My son just gave me the news that a yhs student died in an accident tonight. If you want his name pm me.


Thank you..I already know
But thank you very much ::(:

[Dodgergirl]

This news is all over the internet already. Let's try to be compassionate and not gossip or feed into the rumors. The truth is harsh enough. This is another one especially close to a few members, and as stated from a friend on one of my son's regular sites... "Stop! This is a Shi**y A** way to find out" Please do not post any names. Thanks

[Michelle]

My kids went to bed very upset tonight.......:cry:

[Yosemite_Wolf]

SLOW down folks! The roads in YLP are windy, steep, and often have deer and coyote crossing. Not to mention young children along the road playing or walkinig to and from the bus, friends house etc. I was in Fresno this evening, and this young kid was revving his p. o. s. honda down Fresno St....weaving in and out of cars.... funny thing is, i stopped right behind him at the next red light. Why do kids think it is cool to drive crazy?
I hate hearing about youths dying in car crashes. Such a waste!! Besides, I work at the trauma centre, and don't want to have to meet forums members there... would rather meet ya all at the lake, a bbq. at a stone river event.. NOT as your RN!!!!!!!!

[beautiful_mess38]

I know the kids & thier names. I know one of the mothers and one of the aunts. (so far) I know several kids whom are friends with these kids. I will mention no names. The driver was travelling down Longhollow very fast. He was swerving using both lanes. He almost hit a friend of mine. (she told me this at the barn last night) He came around a corner past Acorn hit a curb between Acorn and Deepforest. The vehicle was airlifted. The passenger (14) was ejected out of the window. (no seat belt) and killed. The vehicle landed and rolled. The driver had one of his hands cut off. There were 6-7 kids in the suv. Rivergold and YHS will be deeply affected. One of the mothers works at Vons. She got the call while working. Ironically one of my friends sister was there at the time. She heard a loud scream. Another scream yelling nooooooo and alot crying. I hope she had someone drive her to YLP. You all know how much I complain about the speeding in this park. I hope this slows everyone down.

[Michelle]

They will be having a memorial at the Yosemite High School for the Young man who lost his life in this accident. it will be at 3:30 at the auditorium.. lets just pray for the families and friends that are having a real hard time dealing with this loss, my daughter is so emotional i just don't know what to say to her....Right now the loss of such a young person is what we need to deal with and the truth later will come out.:cry::(:no::cry::(

[SlimeMold]

You all know how much I complain about the speeding in this park. I hope this slows everyone down.

I do not know the name of the person that was lost. I do not know the name of those injured. But I am still deeply saddened by this tragedy and tears come to my eyes. Please, Please slow down in YLP. It is a family community with Children at play, pets loose and wildlife crossing roads. It is hilly and has blind curves respect 35mph before another tragedy.

[bodie358]

I stopped for gas this morning where the high school kids catch the bus. It was a very somber crowd this morning. A young man overheard us talking about the accident and told me that his friend had died in it. After telling him how sorry I was I asked him to please tell everyone on the bus to slow down and wear their seat belts. I felt so bad for him and the others.

[Yosemite Joy]

Oh wow. I am devastated for the children and parents involved.

How completely tragic.

[Dodgergirl]

As I sat today & listened to a first hand account of this tragedy, I was numb. I very dear friend of mine has lost her grandson & she and her family are devastated. Apparently some people feel that I am a good person to talk to cause I've "been there"... well, um, no. I couldn't explain to them that the devastation never really goes away... it's been 14 years for us & it's still as if it were yesterday. As for the accident yesterday, the count in the vehicle was listed as 5, but in the confusion, that could change. The young man who was driving damaged his hand badly, but as of this afternoon, the doctors at the location where he was air lifted were still trying to save it. While trying to comprehend all of this the question was raised... Why did a sixteen year old have passengers in his vehicle? According to family, he had his license only a couple of weeks... isn't there some regulation stipulating no passengers for the first year or something like that?
I know only too well how that works... some of you remember I almost lost a son almost a year ago in an accident...one with passengers...one that amazingly all five walked away from..., but the exception was I didn't allow him to drive with or without passengers, he made that choice all on his own & is currently paying for his mistakes... It sounds really crazy, but I don't think anyone really realizes how blessed I feel to have him here to pay for his mistakes...
This young boy's life is shattered, he not only injured his friends and possibly disfigured himself, he took the life of a friend...., one he was probably laughing with only moments before. Do I want to protect him & make everything Ok for him? Of course..., but do I also want to protect other kids from the same mistakes? It's a damn hard place to be... He made a stupid mistake, he's still a kid,... do you think he will be persecuted? Do you think his parents will be?
Personally, I think living with the reality of his actions will be hard enough on him, but I received many arguments this afternoon.... Without naming anyone I'd like to hear some opinions on this. (and my opinion may change when the tox screen comes back)

[Mysteefied]

I got to spend some time with the mom tonight. she was happy to see me and my daughter. I feel blessed to be able to spend time with the teens also, I really hope this sinks in. There is still so much to come and it still doesn't seem real.

I feel horrible for the family who lost a son...I know them personally, I love them.

I feel horribly for the young man who made a terrible choice. My heart goes out to him and all he will be facing when he's well enough.

I don't really have an opinion one way or the other on whether he should prosecuted. There simply isn't enough information for me yet.

[Yosemite Joy]

As I sat today & listened to a first hand account of this tragedy, I was numb. I very dear friend of mine has lost her grandson & she and her family are devastated. Apparently some people feel that I am a good person to talk to cause I've "been there"... well, um, no. I couldn't explain to them that the devastation never really goes away... it's been 14 years for us & it's still as if it were yesterday. As for the accident yesterday, the count in the vehicle was listed as 5, but in the confusion, that could change. The young man who was driving damaged his hand badly, but as of this afternoon, the doctors at the location where he was air lifted were still trying to save it. While trying to comprehend all of this the question was raised... Why did a sixteen year old have passengers in his vehicle? According to family, he had his license only a couple of weeks... isn't there some regulation stipulating no passengers for the first year or something like that?
I know only too well how that works... some of you remember I almost lost a son almost a year ago in an accident...one with passengers...one that amazingly all five walked away from..., but the exception was I didn't allow him to drive with or without passengers, he made that choice all on his own & is currently paying for his mistakes... It sounds really crazy, but I don't think anyone really realizes how blessed I feel to have him here to pay for his mistakes...
This young boy's life is shattered, he not only injured his friends and possibly disfigured himself, he took the life of a friend...., one he was probably laughing with only moments before. Do I want to protect him & make everything Ok for him? Of course..., but do I also want to protect other kids from the same mistakes? It's a damn hard place to be... He made a stupid mistake, he's still a kid,... do you think he will be persecuted? Do you think his parents will be?
Personally, I think living with the reality of his actions will be hard enough on him, but I received many arguments this afternoon.... Without naming anyone I'd like to hear some opinions on this. (and my opinion may change when the tox screen comes back)



He may well be prosecuted. Obviously this is a lot for a child (let's remember that they are children) to deal with for the rest of his life. He inadvertently took the life of another. No matter what he does for the rest of his life he will have that scar. He will never be able to escape that.

They posted pictures of Brahim on the news tonight, and showed the roadway where the children were in the accident. They made no mention of any drugs/alcohol involved. CBS said there is a memorial set for tomorrow at YHS at 330.

There were seven children in the car. Two were not wearing their seatbelts.

As Steve Raupp said, "Some kids can't see beyond the here and now..."

[Ironhorse]

My youngest son was no longer a kid when he hit and almost killed two people on a motorcycle. He was also under the influence of drugs at the time. At the hospital, at first a deputy told him he had killed one of the people. Later he found out that both had lived, but with injuries that will take months or years of therapy and healing. Not quite the same thing as this accident, but I can tell you HE lives with the knowledge of what he did (and that he almost killed someone through his stupidity) on an hourly and daily basis. It cost him a good electrician's job, time in prison and he still relives that accident in his nightmares frequently. It affects everyone involved, including families, and yes a lot of people he knows, and even in his own family, treat him differently than they did before the accident. Nothing excuses what happened in either case. I'm just saying, anytime something like this happens, EVERYONE involved lives their own private hell, even the passengers in the vehicle.

[beautiful_mess38]

I have one thing to say right now. As I said in a previous post. He was speeding down Longhollow using both lanes. swerving in and out. I know this because he almost hit a friend of mine by driving in her lane. Few seconds later the crash. My friend that he almost hit said "the accident was bound to happen".
It is a shame. And he will probably be prosecute as an adult. We'll see.

[Patagoniamaniac]

The teens these days think they are invincible....I believe he will be charged with manslaughter...My son just received his licence last Monday..He may only take my other kids to and from school. Although the dmv states clearly that it is illegal for 1 year after having a licence to have any passengers in the car, many parents still allow it. I was even told by a faculty member at the high school that driving the siblings is fine with a note in the car to allow only for emergency purposes ( such as emergency dr's visits))...and to and from school....I do trust my son..many of you that know him know he is a good kid...He understands that if he was to EVER have anyone else in the car besides my other 2. He will not be driving any of our vehicles until he is 18......that still doesnt make it ok..it is the law. Will I still allow my son to drive my other kids to school?..probably..but its wrong and selfish on my part..it is only a convenience to me..I believe they will use this incident as an example and begin enforcing this law...and that they should...not sure if many of you know but if a person is born after 1991..they will need to wait till the age of 18 do get a drivers licence...its no longer 16..

What do you think?..Should I still allow my son to drive my other kids to and from school?...would you allow your kid if you totaly trusted him or her?.....your thoughts please...

[Yosemite_Wolf]

Sure.. he is a "child" but he is also 16 and has taken the test, the drivers test, read the DMV study booklet... he knows (or should) that driving is a PRIVLEDGE, not a right. Too many teens view the act of getting a drivers license a right... aka a rite of passage. They need to fully understand what they are getting into. a car is a dangerous weapon. Just last Friday, there was a terrible accident (and thankfully no deaths) on Hwy 41 right before Ave 12. A friend of mine knew the occupents of the car that got hit.... they were hit by a car going 70mph who wasnt paying attention to the slowing traffic. This accident was not caused by a teen, but an adult. So please ppl, slow down, pay attention and hang up that DA#n phone. Is it worth getting there in a hearse to get their a few minutes earlier???

[Ironhorse]

The teens these days think they are invincible....I believe he will be charged with manslaughter...My son just received his licence last Monday..He may only take my other kids to and from school. Although the dmv states clearly that it is illegal for 1 year after having a licence to have any passengers in the car, many parents still allow it. I was even told by a faculty member at the high school that driving the siblings is fine with a note in the car to allow only for emergency purposes ( such as emergency dr's visits))...and to and from school....I do trust my son..many of you that know him know he is a good kid...He understands that if he was to EVER have anyone else in the car besides my other 2. He will not be driving any of our vehicles until he is 18......that still doesnt make it ok..it is the law. Will I still allow my son to drive my other kids to school?..probably..but its wrong and selfish on my part..it is only a convenience to me..I believe they will use this incident as an example and begin enforcing this law...and that they should...not sure if many of you know but if a person is born after 1991..they will need to wait till the age of 18 do get a drivers licence...its no longer 16..

What do you think?..Should I still allow my son to drive my other kids to and from school?...would you allow your kid if you totaly trusted him or her?.....your thoughts please...

Myself, no, I wouldn't allow my sons to drive when they were 16, they both had to wait till they were 18, and had to buy their own cars. At 16, no matter how mature they seem, to many teens still make bad decisions, to many still get distracted on the road "having fun" with their peers, and too many disregard the traffic laws. Yes, there are a lot of "good" kids out there, but even good kids make mistakes. As for the faculty member's advice, I'd check with Highway Patrol on that "exception". Better to do that, than find out there is no exception. When I read that law when it became effective, I don't remember seeing anything about that, and if there was an exception, it would be there. I could be wrong, but better safe than sorry and sitting there with a big fine.

[Yosemite_Wolf]

And Pata has one of the most respectful, caring sons that anyone could have! I can't speak for everyone... but Messy and Pata need to write a book on how to raise a responsible adult!!!

[SlimeMold]

IMHO, he should be charged with a crime. After the DA interviews the victims and their families and any witnesses, then they can decide whether to proceed with prosecution or a plea agreement or even not to proceed further. I believe the DA will take into account many factors, such as his school record, any prior problems with the law, his attitude while being interviewed (any remorse? I hope) and whether the victims and their families wish to proceed with a court case. As I mentioned before I do not know this person, so these are all just general feelings about this type of incident. Whether he serves time, serves probation, gets probation with public service (speaking at High Schools about the incident) or whatever the out come I will leave with the judicial system. There have been some cases that I have not agreed with the outcome, but no judicial system is perfect (again just my opinion). He will live with this the rest of his life, but the system can't just end with that thought, at the very minimum charges should be filed.

[SlimeMold]

Info from the DMV Website

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs09thru12.htm#minorslicensereq

Minor's License Requirements
You must:

Be at least 16 years old.
Prove that you have finished both DE and DT. (DL 387, DL 388, DL 388A, OL 237, or OL 238)
Have had a California instruction permit for at least six months.
Provide a parent’s signature on your instruction permit stating you have completed the 50 hours of supervised driving practice (10 hours must be night driving) outlined in the Parent-Teen Training Guide. Call 1-800- 777-0133 to request this booklet or follow the previous link to view the online version.
Pass the behind-the-wheel driving test. You have three chances to pass the driving test while your permit is valid. If you fail the first driving test, you must pay a $6 retest fee for
a second or third attempt and wait two weeks before you are tested again.
Once you have your provisional license, you may drive alone as long as you do not have accidents or traffic violations.

When you become 18 years old, the "provisional" part of your license ends. You may keep the photo license you have or pay $21 for a duplicate license without the word "provisional."

During the first 12 months after you are licensed, you cannot drive between 11 pm and 5:00 am and you cannot transport passengers under age 20 unless you are accompanied by your parent or guardian, a licensed driver 25 years of age or older, or a licensed or certified driving instructor.

Exceptions - Minor's License Restriction
The law allows the following exceptions when reasonable transportation is not available and it is necessary for you to drive. A note is required to explain the necessity and the date when the driving necessity will end.

Medical necessity. The note must be signed by your physician.
School or school-authorized activity. The note must be signed by your school principal, dean, or his/her designee.
Employment necessity. The note must be signed by your employer and verify employment.
Immediate need of your family member. Note must be signed by your parent or legal guardian.
Emancipated minor. No documentation is needed. However, you must have already declared yourself emancipated and provided Proof of Financial Responsibility (SR 1P) in lieu of your guarantors' signatures.

[BGW]

Myself, no, I wouldn't allow my sons to drive when they were 16, they both had to wait till they were 18, and had to buy their own cars. At 16, no matter how mature they seem, to many teens still make bad decisions, to many still get distracted on the road "having fun" with their peers, and too many disregard the traffic laws. Yes, there are a lot of "good" kids out there, but even good kids make mistakes. As for the faculty member's advice, I'd check with Highway Patrol on that "exception". Better to do that, than find out there is no exception. When I read that law when it became effective, I don't remember seeing anything about that, and if there was an exception, it would be there. I could be wrong, but better safe than sorry and sitting there with a big fine.

In my family, we were allowed to get our license at 16 if and only if we met certain family requirements like a certain grade point average and maintaining a paying job. We also were not allowed to use the family car; which meant buying our own, and paying for all insurance, gas, and repairs. We were also taught that a vehicle was a dangerous weapon first and a mode of transportation second.

All this was done in hopes of keeping us a bit more responsible and careful with something we knew would/could be taken away for anything from a minor infraction or a slip in grade point average.

In my own mind, there are just too many 'what ifs' in allowing the oldest child to drive the younger kids. I would be a worried wreck each time they all left together. Let alone how the oldest would feel if something was to go wrong. After the oldest has had time and experience and has proven themselves responsible then I would re-evaluate the situation.

[Michelle]

Well in my eyes if he is charged with whatever it will be because of driving with other kids in the car, I don't think anything will be as worse as living with the loss of a friend because of the accident that happen. I have mixed feelings about this...
I will state what I think . As I sit at the bus stop at 7:15am every morning and watch all these kids who drive down 417 way over the speed limit with other kids in the car and I know for a fact that most of these kids just got there Lic. I really makes me mad at the fact that they first of all drive like this and they don't stop for the buses red lights and they speed all the time and the parents let them drive with other kids in the car. Okay kids will make mistakes I know that and they are kids but it is our job as parents to keep control of the privilege that they are given to drive. What is a new driver doing with other kids in the car. We all state they make mistakes and we do what we can to keep them from harm, if a kid steals a car and puts other kids in the car and go for a joy ride that is the kids mistake in which they will pay for it one way or another that is you know what is right and you know what is wrong. So I sit here and watch my daughter cry herself to sleep because a friend lost his life in a heartbreaking tragic accident. She askes me why did this happen? carelessness what? I can't answer that because I don't know.. I know I know we can't control our kids in what we do when at school after school and all that but I see all these kids drive in the parking lot speeding and driving stupid . And yep if I know the parent I will go up to them and tell them you need to sit down with your child and let them know they are driving stupid. Yep the very next day i see the same thing. How do I control my kids driving... they will NOT drive until they are 18 years old they will NOT get in a car with another teenager who is driving and if i catch them or find out they got into a car without permission holy hell will break loose at home..People ask me well that just means you are gonna have to drive her every place and all that .. I say yep and if i can't take her or pick her up then she doesn't go. that simple. . I did not drive until i was 19 years old...
I had someone die in a car accident every year in my high school. If you to look at my yearbooks every year it was dedicated to someone who had died in a car accident...my bestfriend spent her sweet 16 in a coma because she was in a bug and the driver was speeding and hit the island in the middle and thru my bestfriend out of the bug. I am thankful she is alive but she doesnt even know who I am and the years that we grew up together ... that is hearbreaking. jYep she was in my wedding but she kept asking me how we knew each other.

So now I think nobody should drive until they are 18 years old. They schools all should have after school buses for all the after school things. Pay for the gas and deal with it. If a young driver is not to drive with anyone in the car then they (school and Highway Patrol, parents) should enforce it. If we don't then will keep going. Now please I am not bagging on anyone here who make there own choices...You can do what you want as a parent with there own child this is just my thoughts and I do not judge anyone for there choices....

I am heartbroken for the tragic accident that happen and my heart hangs heavy with saddness for the mothers who's child was involved in this accident.....

I can't answer nor understand why the young lives are taken away from there families like this and yes as a mother I cry many times of the loss for the families even though I do not know them at all, and my heart breaks for the girlfriend, family, friends, schoolmates sisters, brothers who had lost this young man and anyone else who this boy has touched there heart with his friendship.....

I hope nobody thinks for what I wrote I judge them in any way.....
It is such a mixed feeling either way on this subject.....

[SlimeMold]

I hope nobody thinks for what I wrote I judge them in any way.....
It is such a mixed feeling either way on this subject.....

This is a topic that is heartfelt by so many in this community. Some knew the children involved. Some have their own children. Some have shared experiences from the past. Everybody has their right to an opinion. Time will tell how things will turn out. Investigations will be done and have already begun. I do not feel that you have judged anyone.

[Patagoniamaniac]

And Pata has one of the most respectful, caring sons that anyone could have! I can't speak for everyone... but Messy and Pata need to write a book on how to raise a responsible adult!!!

ahhh thanks so much Wolfie..that meant a lot...miss you..

[Ironhorse]

Info from the DMV Website

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs09thru12.htm#minorslicensereq

Minor's License Requirements
You must:

Be at least 16 years old.
Prove that you have finished both DE and DT. (DL 387, DL 388, DL 388A, OL 237, or OL 238)
Have had a California instruction permit for at least six months.
Provide a parent’s signature on your instruction permit stating you have completed the 50 hours of supervised driving practice (10 hours must be night driving) outlined in the Parent-Teen Training Guide. Call 1-800- 777-0133 to request this booklet or follow the previous link to view the online version.
Pass the behind-the-wheel driving test. You have three chances to pass the driving test while your permit is valid. If you fail the first driving test, you must pay a $6 retest fee for
a second or third attempt and wait two weeks before you are tested again.
Once you have your provisional license, you may drive alone as long as you do not have accidents or traffic violations.

When you become 18 years old, the "provisional" part of your license ends. You may keep the photo license you have or pay $21 for a duplicate license without the word "provisional."

During the first 12 months after you are licensed, you cannot drive between 11 pm and 5:00 am and you cannot transport passengers under age 20 unless you are accompanied by your parent or guardian, a licensed driver 25 years of age or older, or a licensed or certified driving instructor.

Exceptions - Minor's License Restriction
The law allows the following exceptions when reasonable transportation is not available and it is necessary for you to drive. A note is required to explain the necessity and the date when the driving necessity will end.

Medical necessity. The note must be signed by your physician.
School or school-authorized activity. The note must be signed by your school principal, dean, or his/her designee.
Employment necessity. The note must be signed by your employer and verify employment.
Immediate need of your family member. Note must be signed by your parent or legal guardian.
Emancipated minor. No documentation is needed. However, you must have already declared yourself emancipated and provided Proof of Financial Responsibility (SR 1P) in lieu of your guarantors' signatures.

Thanks SlimeMold, that's what I remember. I see nothing in the above that gives permission for the teen to have other teens in the car without an adult, etc. The only thing the exception allows from what I read is allows the teen to drive after the times stated for employment, school activities and medical necessity. It doesn't say that it is to allow them to transport other teens.

[Kim]

This is probably a skewed point of view stemming from where I work, but in my opinion, 18's too young. 18-23 seems to be the average age of young drivers I see in the trauma ED.
Forget the probably, I'm sure it's a skewed point of view, but there it is. My kid is 19, and she drives carefully because she's pregnant and still nervous, but I worry about her driving, especially after the baby is born. Tell me a baby in the backseat isn't more of a distraction than a cell phone......lordy.

[Michelle]

And Pata has one of the most respectful, caring sons that anyone could have! I can't speak for everyone... but Messy and Pata need to write a book on how to raise a responsible adult!!!

I have to agree.. all her kids are sweet and respectful.......
When they come out with the book I would like to be on the list to get one.....
I need it...

[bodie358]

I too think that even 18 is too young for a license but how can we raise it up to 21 when someone that age can go to war, vote, etc....

[Patagoniamaniac]

how will they get to work?...or College?.........18..my kids will be off to college...hopefully...

[Michelle]

Well Pata has a good point... my son will be going to college even before he turns 18 .. So I think maybe we need to make reality a little more effective and let them see what happens to drivers who not only drink and drive but take out mom and dad's car on a joy ride...or just speeding down the road and loose control..What will happen to them with the law but the parents too... have them be required to see this first hand... I dunno.. only reality will make them see.... my daughter is now happy riding the bus everyday to school... she lost her want to ride with her friends.... but the other problem is that parents don't make sure they aren't driving there friends around... when they get there lic. they have to sign there name.. if it says NOBODY in the car then there better be nobody in the car!!!!!!!!!!!!! What does the school do when the kids are speeding up and down the parking lot after school ...
NOTHING...............doing there donuts in the dirt parking lot after school...NOTHING............I have seen it first hand....
So I guess when the parents making sure also the school needs to be on top of it also. Sadly enough we take this heartbreaking accident and learn from it... god knows the families will live with this forever!

[Newcomer]

Slightly off topic here but I think the drivers license law needs to be revisited. I think all people that want to have the right to talk on the cell phone while driving need to take a new driving test with this in mind. I think that it should be a special marker on the license plate and on your license that designates that you have taken the test and passed it. The test would be administered by the DMV and would consist of a obstilcle course in a driving simulator with general day traffic happenings with random special events thrown in like a car cutting you off without singnaling or a child running out into the street, navigating a cone course