The Golden Compass

[Edana]

Sorry if this has already been posted here. Has anyone else read about this movie where the children kill God? What is happening to entertainment?? :no:


Since my post count hasnt reached 10 or greater I cant post the link. Go to google or snopes and check it out!

[Patagoniamaniac]

I Refuse to see the movie..period.

[David_V]

In fact, the movie is about exactly what you are doing; religious tyranny. They don't kill a god, they kill something that CLAIMS to be a god. They do so because of the tyranny of the minions off that usurper. If you had read the books, you'd know that.

Besides, the movie has been cleansed of any religious references. It seems the tyranny and censorship if religions have already had their effects. :(

[beautiful_mess38]

If you read the book, that is not what its about. Just because the author is an athiest doesn't mean he has children kill God in his books. It's not true. And remember this book is pure fantasy. Do you remember when Harry Potter first came out and all the rumors that were going around. Parents wouldn't let thier kids read or see the movie. Same thing here. My kids and I are going with a few friends to see this movie and I can't wait.

[Ironhorse]

I promised my grandkids we'd go see it when their Winter Break starts. We can't wait to see it too. The commercials look really good.

[jakobscalpel]

Has anyone else read about this movie where the children kill God? What is happening to entertainment?

You mean, why did an author create a work of fiction with a fantastical plot and dare to call that entertainment? Surely this is a new development in the history of mankind! Boycott!

[Yosemite_Wolf]

once again, the book is FANTASY! It involves parallel worlds. The two children are NOT trying to kill god. Also, if you READ the books you will find out that despite the author (Phillip Pullman)being an Atheist, he knows the bible VERY well. I can't believe that people are out there refusing to see a movie with even knowing what it is about. You can't take someone's word about a book and boycott it on that premise. READ THE BOOK! Then decide if you think it is appropriate for your children to read. Children and Adults need to expose themselves to thing that are normally out of their comfort zone... cos guess what ! You might learn something. I have read all three books of the series. I have read C.S. Lewis's Narnia series (C.S. Lewis is a devout Christian who was good friends with J.R.R. Tolkien (non religious). I have also read all of his books along with the complete Harry Potter series. When I read a book, especially fantasy, I let the book take me where it is going... Thats the main idea behind reading. I look forward to seeing this movie.... Sam Eliot is gonna be awesome in his role of a cowboy type "from the great Country of Texas"

So folks.. read the books, see the movie and THEN make your decision.

[John S]

People have every right to reject the film, but they should make an INFORMED decision--not just because they received an email or because a pastor/religious leader said so.

For myself, I'm intrigued by the books and look forward to reading them. I also love the Narnia books (presently I'm reading "The Horse and His Boy" to my oldest son at bedtime).

Here is a good article from the LA Times on the issue...

http://www.latimes.com/features/books/la-bk-miller2dec02,0,1352215.story?coll=la-home-center

Also, check out the Wikipedia article on the movie...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Compass_(film)

[Patagoniamaniac]

well, after those of you see the movie, it would be great if you post your reviews. If it has anything to do with killing God...I wont allow my children to see it. I have to admit that when I saw the previews, I found it intriguing..but after the christian reviews...i felt differently about viewing it...just the way I feel..

[Yosemite_Wolf]

reviews are reviews. I can tell you that I loved or hated the movie, but to form your OWN opinion nothing beats getting your own copy of the book and reading it. B/c you already know that I loved the books. But I will glady post my review of the movie. Heck, I read the books of Narnia knowing what a devout Christian that Mr. Lewis was.. yet I still read and LOVED the books and it didnt sway my religious books in any way. I just simply enjoyed the books and movie. As with Harry Potter.
The Book Enders Game was written by a devout Mormon. I am not a Mormon, but I still enjoyed the book.

[David_V]

..but after the christian reviews....
Why would the "christian" reviews be any more correct than a non "christian" review? From what I've seen, it's painfully obvious that none of the christians reviewing the books have even read them. And if they did, wouldn't they necessarily have a biased view of the books?

The first book, the one that's been made into the movie, is in a world where a religion has taken over and set up an Inquisition style oppression. They do some really awful acts in the name of their religion. They censor literature. They stifle scientific research. They abuse people. They have become evil in the name of religion. Sound familiar? Shouldn't we be against that kind of world?

[Dodgergirl]

I think the intelligent thing to do when it comes to a movie with this much controversy is to go see it, BUT not with your children... Then, as an educated parent, you can make the decision if it is appropriate for your particular child. We need to protect our children, but also as important, we need to teach them that the world is not as it is at home everywhere else, and someday they might not have us to tell them something isn't appropriate...They're gonna have to make these decisions on their own.

[CatdaBrat]

I seem to have some vague recollection of television commercials about this movie, but I didn't pay attention so I didn't learn what it is about. I didn't even realize there is a series of books. I will have to read them. I loved all of the Harry Potter books and movies.

As far as trends in entertainment (and TV commercials) go, my latest gripe is a Christmas season commercial that includes, amongst other things, a guy grabbing another guy's butt and women making out with each other. I am not against homosexuality but I am not in favor of public make-out sessions and *** grabbing, even if heteros are doing it. The commercial, I am sure, was attempting to show viewers how "cool" and "avante gard" the advertiser is. How odd that a holiday dedicated to the birth of Jesus would be transformed into such a thing.

Going back to the movie being discussed, I will try to see it, but unless it plays up here, I probably won't get a chance to check it out.

[beautiful_mess38]

We're planning to go see the Golden Compass on the 15th if anyone wants to join us.

[mary oleary]

American Family Association review http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/12/perspectives_in_what_direction.php

Here's another review site http://www.albertmohler.com/blog_read.php?id=1065

Pullman's attack on biblical Christianity is direct and undeniable. He once questioned why his books attracted little controversy even as the Harry Potter books attracted so much. He told an Australian newspaper that what he is "saying things that are far more subversive than anything poor old Harry has said. My books are about killing God."

In the last volume of the trilogy, a character known as Dr. Mary Malone explains her discovery to Lyra and Will: "I used to be a nun, you see. I thought physics could be done to the glory of God, till I saw there wasn't any God at all and that physics was more interesting anyway. The Christian religion is a very powerful and convincing mistake, that's all."

Christians need not feel any obligation to support films that may work against what they are trying to teach thier children.

Thier children get plenty of anti- christian influences just during day to day activities.

And if boycotting this film sends a message to Hollywood that people are tired of having thier faith constantly attacked, by refusing to go to a movie that is based on anti-christian set of books, good.

[Yosemite Joy]

I saw this movie last Friday with my five year old and seven year old. They loved it. I liked it alright, they have sure dumbed it down from the book though. But that is okay, Hollywood usually does when adapting a movie from a book.

It had the best CGI effects, absolutely stunning. And no mention of killing God or anything like that. LOL. Maybe my children will be stunted forever now.

[Yosemite_Wolf]

LOL YJ! Stunted children indeed. Ill be seeing the movie this coming saturday. Can't wait! I can just imagine how much they downsize the movie from the book......

[Mibrew]

Thier children get plenty of anti- christian influences just during day to day activities.

And if boycotting this film sends a message to Hollywood that people are tired of having thier faith constantly attacked, by refusing to go to a movie that is based on anti-christian set of books, good.[/QUOTE]

Hello,

So I'm thinking your saying if your not Christian, that you are not allowed to associate with your children, I'm not Christian, but I guess I fall into your catogory of ANTI-Christian...

I feel that what you feel inside your heart and body and soul, makes you a better person, not which religion you choice makes you better or worse of a person.

I really dislike those who take "every chance" on these forums to bring up "their beliefs" and condem/critizise others for it.

Why is so many things turn upside down, because of a persons believes? you should be able to believe what you want, and whats in your heart, and always love one another no matter what their believes are. and please never "enforce" your religous believes on others.

Believe in your heart..

Merry Christmas
Brew ~ : ]

[Yosemite_Wolf]

Well said MiBrew!!!!! believe in your heart! You can be a good person and not go to church. And you can go to church and be an A-hole the rest of the week. Going to church on Sunday DOES NOT ATONE for ones sins on Mon-Sat! I am very very excited about going to see the movie next weekend. The only dilemna in my head now is that The Kite Runner is opening that weekend and I want to see that too ( but then I must finish reading the book first!!)

Happy Yuletide to all of you

From me.... aka the Celtic Warrior Princess.

[Ironhorse]

Bravo Mibrew! I consider myself a Christian, but I don't go to church. Does that make me less of a Christian? It does to some. I happen to believe I don't need a "group" to help me decide what my God wants of me, he and I can work that out by the conversations I have with him frequently. As for seeing the movie, we're still going to see it. Seeing what other people believe (if it's even stated in this movie, which from what I've read is questionable) is what helps people understand each other better, and that makes them get along better. Religion and interpretations of others beliefs, or intolerance of those beliefs is what has been behind more than one war fought on this planet. Foolishness, God (by whatever name you call him/her) put us all here. The funny part, or sad part, (and why I no longer go to church), the person up in that pulpit, preaching to everyone on how to live our lives according to God is frequently one of the biggest sinners. Think about the downfall of so many TV Evangelicals and priests, rabbis, pastors who have sinned.

[David_V]

American Family Association review
Hardly an unbiased review. Are you going to blindly believe them just because they claim to be a religious group?

Christians need not feel any obligation to support films that may work against what they are trying to teach thier children.

So, then you are FOR religious oppression? Do you actually believe it OK for religions, especially the Christian one, to inhumane acts in the name of religion? THAT is what the movie is against.

Thier children get plenty of anti- christian influences just during day to day activities.

Hardly since this society is dominated by Christians.

And if boycotting this film sends a message to Hollywood that people are tired of having thier faith constantly attacked, by refusing to go to a movie that is based on anti-christian set of books, good.

The message it sends is that Christians support religious oppression. It also shows that they don't mind oppressing the religious views of others.

[Patagoniamaniac]

I'm so tired of these forums and the Christian bashing.....We are not entitled to our own opinions about a movie....?...to each his own....I'm done and tired with these forums and the anti -Christians...Joy robbers in my opinon..I'm not in a really good mood right now....dont need this SH*T.....I guess I'll now be judged for saying a bad word.....I'm such a hypocrite....

[Yosemite_Wolf]

Pata. I dont think this is christian bashing. I like what Mibrew said best..... belief is in the heart.. no matter who or what you pray to. Its all about a good and treating people as you wish to be treated. And to educate yourself, not listen to what our leaders preach.. whether it be the president, our mom, our dad, our priest, etc etc. Listen to the heart and educate your self.. then make a decision. I don't bash anyone for their religious beliefs. We all have our own ways of believing. that is the nature of living in the USA!

[David_V]

I'm so tired of these forums and the Christian bashing.....We are not entitled to our own opinions about a movie....?...to each his own....I'm done and tired with these forums and the anti -Christians...Joy robbers in my opinon..I'm not in a really good mood right now....dont need this SH*T.....I guess I'll now be judged for saying a bad word.....I'm such a hypocrite....

I'm sorry, but I haven't been around this forum for very long... but I've seen no "Christian bashing." Part of my point was that your opinion about the move was not an educated one. You have not read the books, nor seen the movie. You were just repeating what someone with an agenda had to say. Read the book, see the movie, then make a decision for yourself.

[Ironhorse]

I think the point of the posts is that everyone IS entitled to their own opinions/religions, whether Christian, "fallen" Christian, Muslim, Buddhist. or whatever. And they are entitled to go see the movie and make their own decision of it's message, if in fact there is a message to be found. But for someone to say the movie is bad based solely on what they have read, or been told by their "leaders" is, to me, unhealthy. A pastor, priest, rabbi, iman, whoever, who is secure in what they have taught and the path that their congregation is on shouldn't be afraid for that congregation to go see a movie and determine for themselves what it says. To come out and say "Don't go see it, it's evil" is wrong and makes those followers seem like children, unable to make their own determinations, or makes them seem too weak to adhere to their beliefs. In my mind, God will tell me in my mind AND my heart what is right and what is wrong.

[Patagoniamaniac]

I'm sorry, but I haven't been around this forum for very long... but I've seen no "Christian bashing." Part of my point was that your opinion about the move was not an educated one. You have not read the books, nor seen the movie. You were just repeating what someone with an agenda had to say. Read the book, see the movie, then make a decision for yourself.


I'm sorry but I don't need to read the book to form an opinion. If my congregation feels that watching this movie is something that should be boycotted. I will refuse to see it.. And yes..you havent been around these forums for long..READ.... the entire forums back 4 years and you'll find plenty of christian bashing ok?..READ THE FORUMS!..then form an opinion..Isn't watching the news lately enough for you Athiests ?...4 christians dead..why are you all ( Non - believers) so hateful to people Who love the Lord?...Maybe it's because there is something missing from your lives...And thats Christ...Merry CHRISTmas!!!

[jakobscalpel]

why are you all ( Non - believers) so hateful to people Who love the Lord?...Maybe it's because there is something missing from your lives...And thats Christ...Merry CHRISTmas!!!

I sorta fit your description (non-believer). Most people who fit this description are rarely hateful to the people who "love the lord". They are more often hateful of the holier than thou attitude and willful ignorance often expressed by those who "love the lord". As a Christian, I'm sure you are very familiar with this sentiment. It is called, "Love the sinner, hate the sin".

[Patagoniamaniac]

And your familiar with the saying..."Christians aren't perfect...Just Forgiven?"...why are we stereotyped into a catagory that we are better than everyone else..We have ALL sinned and fallen short of the glory of God...there was only one that was perfect that walked this earth..And he is the reason we Celebrate this season.......

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[Dodgergirl]

I'm so tired of these forums and the Christian bashing.....We are not entitled to our own opinions about a movie....?...to each his own....I'm done and tired with these forums and the anti -Christians...Joy robbers in my opinon..I'm not in a really good mood right now....dont need this SH*T.....I guess I'll now be judged for saying a bad word.....I'm such a hypocrite....

Pata, You are the furthest thing from a hypocrite... There are many believers on this forum, as well as many non believers... I for one am a believer, but many times my lifestyle doesn't support that claim...Hey, it's between me and Him. If you feel that going to a particular movie isn't what you are supposed to do, then by all means, I will support your decision. I still believe it is our job as parents to screen questionable movies if our intent is to allow our children to see it.

Now to address a couple of the other things you say...it isn't the Forums fault that people disagree, it just allows them an audience to voice their opinions...that can be a really good thing, after all, we're supposed to love our neighbor...and respect his opinion...the only time I have a hard time with this is when they start name calling and being rude. I haven't seen a lot of that in this thread, but I have in the past...

And as for the 'bad' word...Shyt, if I were perfect I wouldn't need a Savior...Glad to know you're in that boat with me. ;)

[beautiful_mess38]

The point is, this is a movie...well book then movie. This movie isn't about Jesus or God. It's make believe. Why the Christian groups chose this movie to bash is beyond me. There are alot worse movies out there and TV shows that they let thier kids watch.
This is fantasy, its all make believe. Thats what fantasy is about.

I guess some groups are more comfortable watching killings, rapes, cussing, nudity ect then a fantasy movie. I just don't get it....

[Patagoniamaniac]

( Thanks Dodge! It's just a sensitive subject to me and plays on my emotions.. )

It's sad that the spiritual battles which happen all around us remain hidden to so many. I'm not saying some of us can see into spiritual realms, on the contrary. I am saying, however, that some have an ability to discern what is happening because they seek God and study his Word...How Ironic that a movie like this comes out right around My Saviors Birthday....
.... The devil or Satan, or what ever you call him, is deceiving and sneaky. Remember, he is known as an angel of light.
I'm just careful

[David_V]

I'm sorry but I don't need to read the book to form an opinion.

To form an informed opinion, you would.

If my congregation feels that watching this movie is something that should be boycotted. I will refuse to see it.. And yes..you havent been around these forums for long..READ.... the entire forums back 4 years and you'll find plenty of christian bashing ok?..READ THE FORUMS!..then form an opinion..Isn't watching the news lately enough for you Athiests ?...4 christians dead..why are you all ( Non - believers) so hateful to people Who love the Lord?..

Why mention 4 dead christians as if you are trying to say that Atheists are responsible? I have read in this forum YOUR Atheist bashing. You just claimed we are hateful towards Christians. We are not. You just tried to insinuate that we killed 4 people. We did not. You claimed we are "joy robbers." We are not. So, why is it alright to bash Atheists? And where have I said anything against your religion?

.Maybe it's because there is something missing from your lives...And thats Christ...Merry CHRISTmas!!!

Hmmmm.... more Atheist bashing.

What I am trying to get across is that the movie is not anti christian. It is anti religious totalitarianism. In the first book, and a little bit in the film, there is a lot of religious persecution and censorship. The church will not allow any scientific research that does not fit with its agenda. THAT is what the book is against, not religion in general. If you had read the books you'd know that and you'd know that those speaking out against the movie are wrong.

[David_V]

And your familiar with the saying..."Christians aren't perfect...Just Forgiven?"...why are we stereotyped into a catagory that we are better than everyone else..We have ALL sinned and fallen short of the glory of God...there was only one that was perfect that walked this earth..And he is the reason we Celebrate this season.......

Actually, the real reason is the Winter Solstice. There have been celebrations at this time of year thousands of years before the Christians came along. Many religions have their gods born at this time, and most of those even have their gods "reborn" in the Spring, at the Vernal Equinox. The name of one god born in the spring; Eastor. ;)

[MtnBreeze]

I saw this movie on sunday with my daughter and grandchildren and it was very entertaining....and if one thinks there is a msg or "agenda"... what I got from it was ...seekers of truths and good prevails over evil....and oppression cannot be tolerated...it is FANTASY but I thought it had excellent messages and really good effects...there was nothing in it that anyone should be afraid to view....
Fear often leads us blindly into judgement....knowledge is what sets us free to choose our own paths.....and each of us not only has the right but thankfully in the US the freedom to choose our own path....
The movie only stresses how important this is....if anyone thinks this is "killing god" and that ANY oppression of free thinking and seeking the truth is acceptable...then I know why our world is in such a state....
To those of you who go see it...I am sure you will enjoy it. It kept me thoroughly engrossed and I didn't wanna miss anything....but of course I particularly like fantasy :)

[Yosemite Joy]

Joy robbers in my opinon.

Where? Someone needs to let me know about these robbers.

[Mysteefied]

Now THAT is funny! :rofl:

Where? Someone needs to let me know about these robbers.

[Patagoniamaniac]

oh ya ...Im LMAO!!!! thats ok....My bible says chrisitians will be persecuted. Thats ok..i stand firm in my faith and the against the wiles of the devil.......we'll see who has the last laugh in the end...
I'm so done with you people!....Its been nice knowing most of you....the rest of you can............................................
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. enjoy the " HOLIDAYS"

[Mysteefied]

Pata..
I wasn't laughing at you, or even about this particular thread. I love ya! I certainly hope you know that.

It just struck me as funny and made me giggle in the midst of this heated debate, that she posted that and I figured I'd let it out a bit.
Just a big sigh and deep breath.

[MtnBreeze]

Pat
At the risk of offending you even more I have to say I don't understand your accusations nor why you are so uptight. No one has attacked you. They have expressed an opinion that you obviously feel threatened by. That is sad. You have every right to believe as you believe but so does the rest of the world and not all peoples in this world are christian. If that offends you then it is you who needs to sit back and take stock of yourself. None of us has put down christians. We have said the movie should not be a threat and there is no basis for a boycott. YOU still have the right to believe and do as you please. It is your choice not to see the movie just as it is others to see it....However....the point made here is that in order to evaluate something you must first have the courage to examine it. This very idea seems to have you in an uproar. I hope you can settle down and look at it as it is meant rather than saying we all "stink".

[mary oleary]

Hardly an unbiased review. Are you going to blindly believe them just because they claim to be a religious group?

I would expect Christians to seek reviews with a Christian world view. Whats wrong with that?

So, then you are FOR religious oppression? Do you actually believe it OK for religions, especially the Christian one, to inhumane acts in the name of religion? THAT is what the movie is against.
I don't think it's ok for ANYONE to commit inhumane acts, not in the name of "Atheistic Evolution" ( hitler, stalin, polpot) or "Islam" or "Choice" More horrendous acts have been committed by pure human barbarism, than can be attributed to the Christian church.
Why do you say "especially the Christian one?"


Hardly since this society is dominated by Christians.

Gimme a break, watch 20 minutes of TV, walk around a school campus or mall, The "Christian" influence is minimal at best.

The message it sends is that Christians support religious oppression. It also shows that they don't mind oppressing the religious views of others.

No- What it shows is that Christian's have as much right to boycott a commercial film as any one has to boycott anything. Whether it's Tuna, Gap Clothing, or Gasoline...

The point of a boycott is to send a message about a consumer group, as an effort to effect the consumer market. Christians are consumers, and they can (and should) influence politics and economics as much as non-Christians.

This isn't about religious oppression, unless you are conceding that the movie is a religious attempt to sway the populous?

I think it is ironic that many posters on this thread also vehemently posted the egregious offense of anyone who suggests to their children there is no Santa Claus... and I bet they would boycott a movie that "exposes" that Santa is a myth!

Hmmmm... :shrug:

[Dodgergirl]

At the risk of starting something..,which is not my intention..,and of sounding totally unaware... would someone tell me who called for the original boycott? Was it in print? A sermon? I'm still not familiar with this computer and it is slow for me to use, so a link would be helpful.
Thanks

[Yosemite Joy]

walk around a school campus...The "Christian" influence is minimal at best.

I would hope so!!

[mary oleary]

What I am trying to get across is that the movie is not anti christian. It is anti religious totalitarianism. In the first book, and a little bit in the film, there is a lot of religious persecution and censorship. The church will not allow any scientific research that does not fit with its agenda. THAT is what the book is against, not religion in general. If you had read the books you'd know that and you'd know that those speaking out against the movie are wrong.

Whose standard of "wrong" I wonder? Yours? ;)

[mary oleary]

as requested by dodgergirl

American Family Association review http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/12/perspectives_in_what_direction.php

Here's another review site http://www.albertmohler.com/blog_read.php?id=1065


Christians need not feel any obligation to support films that may work against what they are trying to teach their children.

their children get plenty of anti- Christian influences just during day to day activities.

And if boycotting this film sends a message to Hollywood that people are tired of having their faith constantly attacked, by refusing to go to a movie that is based on anti-Christian set of books, good.

[mary oleary]

Thier children get plenty of anti- christian influences just during day to day activities.

And if boycotting this film sends a message to Hollywood that people are tired of having thier faith constantly attacked, by refusing to go to a movie that is based on anti-christian set of books, good.

Hello,

So I'm thinking your saying if your not Christian, that you are not allowed to associate with your children, I'm not Christian, but I guess I fall into your catogory of ANTI-Christian...

I feel that what you feel inside your heart and body and soul, makes you a better person, not which religion you choice makes you better or worse of a person.
When did I say anything like you infer? I think you are reading between the lines, and inserting your own fears...
I really dislike those who take "every chance" on these forums to bring up "their beliefs" and condem/critizise others for it.
Isn't the point of this thread to discuss spiritual topics? Shouldn't you expect people to express "thier beleifs".

Why is so many things turn upside down, because of a persons believes? you should be able to believe what you want, and whats in your heart, and always love one another no matter what their believes are. and please never "enforce" your religous believes on others.

Believe in your heart..

Merry Christmas
Brew ~ : ]

My comment was simple and straightforward. Christian parents have the same rights as non Christian parents, and they don't need to apologize for it.

And if they decide not to shell out 9 bucks to see a movie that degrades their beliefs, then they shouldn't be accused of religious tyranny!

Anti-Christian influences is not a person, but a social influence. Anti Christian means opposite or opposed to Christian. It is obvious that the current social norms of our society are opposite, or opposed to, Christian teachings.

[Sewmaui]

Mary and Pat,

I applaud you for your belief and your willingness to share your opionions.

Hebrews 10:23(NAS)Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.

Some people believe that if one is "good", then their life is fine here on earth, but as Christians, we base our beliefs on what the Bible says not what man says and we do not stop at our life here on earth but our eternal life.

Ephesians 2:8,9(NAS) For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast.

Forums provide information and opinions and not everyone is going to agree with each other but it is an avenue to give information to others we may not be in direct contact with and everyone can choose what they want to get from the postings. Just as some have expressed their views on Christianty(whether in agreement or not), some have also expressed their own views about how they choose to live their lives in other ways. I do not think anyone really wants to harbor bad feelings with what they write but one must understand that if one talks about how they believe or not believe, we are all stating our own beliefs. And, yes, just as much as a Christian "preaches" his/her faith, a non-Christian "preaches" his/her non-faith.

The subject of this Thread, as we have all read, is diverse in the way we look at entertainment. Some people value what they do in regards to their own lives and can feel strongly about it and some view it as just entertainment.

Harry Potter was written by a mother who told bedtime stories to her children. C.S. Lewis wrote the Chronicles of Narnia to express his beliefs. Pullman chose to write these books for his own belief system also. One is a mother with an imagination, one was a Christian and one is an atheist. Just suppose.....I know this is a little far-fetched....but what if Charles Manson wrote a childrens' story that also expressed his evil views but in his own mind it was to show children to love satan and evil........wouldn't everyone want to state how they feel about it? I, for one would definitely not endorse it since I would consider the "source"(the author). Remember, there are people who do consider the sources of their entertainments.
What is so wonderful about the God I choose to believe in is, that we all have a choice....believe or not to believe....Grace or works......Good or evil...Right or wrong.....to do or not to do....etc.

May God Bless you all and have a Merry Christmas!

[Yosemite Joy]

Ultimately it is up to the individual to decide what they want to do. You can base your opinions on others (Pastors, critics, etc) if you like. What does it matter anyway? The movie is out, just like any of the other "banned" movies from Christians. Christians aren't always the go-to in such secular entertainment venues... Forget movies for a second and look back on various literature and works that the "Christians" have banned over the years:

The Road Less Traveled
Of Mice and Men
All Harry Potter
Catcher in the Rye
The Grapes of Wrath
As I Lay Dying
Slaughterhouse Five
Diary of Anne Frank

and so many, many more.

Makes me so grateful that my father allowed me to read whatever I wanted as a child. I remember almost being suspended for reading Stephen King in the fifth grade. My father would not stand for that, I was told not to bring "adult" books to school anymore.

One is free to read or not read or see or not see anything they want in this country. IF people want to base their opinions on those in higher authority, be it God or a Pastor, let them. As long as I am free to see what I want and read what I want, I don't mind if others are ignorant.

*goes back to reading 1984 (another banned book)*

[David_V]

I would expect Christians to seek reviews with a Christian world view. Whats wrong with that?
To seek one view to the exclusion of all others is not a very good way to get to the truth of the matter. You will necessarily end up with an extremely biased, and incorrect, view.

I don't think it's ok for ANYONE to commit inhumane acts, not in the name of "Atheistic Evolution" ( hitler, stalin, polpot) or "Islam" or "Choice" More horrendous acts have been committed by pure human barbarism, than can be attributed to the Christian church.
Why do you say "especially the Christian one?"
Because history proves your view to be wrong. No one has done anything in the name of "Atheistic Evolution," what ever that is. Many have done great harm to humanity in the name of, and with the blessings of, the Christian religion.

Gimme a break, watch 20 minutes of TV, walk around a school campus or mall, The "Christian" influence is minimal at best.
Uh.... what world do you live in?

No- What it shows is that Christian's have as much right to boycott a commercial film as any one has to boycott anything. Whether it's Tuna, Gap Clothing, or Gasoline...
They can boycott whatever they want. I also have rights and one of those rights is that pesky freedom of speech.

The point of a boycott is to send a message about a consumer group, as an effort to effect the consumer market. Christians are consumers, and they can (and should) influence politics and economics as much as non-Christians.
The point of the boycott was not about consumers, but about religion. The boycott is based entirely on religious grounds and the false belief that a certain religion was being attacked. The sad part is that people blindly, and blissfully, followed along.

This isn't about religious oppression, unless you are conceding that the movie is a religious attempt to sway the populous?
The movie was about religious oppression. If "the populous" has to be swayed against religious oppression, then we are in trouble.

I think it is ironic that many posters on this thread also vehemently posted the egregious offense of anyone who suggests to their children there is no Santa Claus... and I bet they would boycott a movie that "exposes" that Santa is a myth!

Hmmmm... :shrug:
Did anyone here mention Santa Claus?

[David_V]

Whose standard of "wrong" I wonder? Yours? ;)
No, any rational standard. The movie, and the books, were not about the christian religion. They were about religious oppression. But you'd know that if you had bothered to read the books. No god is killed off in any of the books. The "Authority" in the books is something that claims to be a god, but is not. I do not want to give away much of the book - but no one kills any god and no one kills the "Authority." Read the books and you'll understand.

[David_V]

My comment was simple and straightforward. Christian parents have the same rights as non Christian parents, and they don't need to apologize for it.
And no one has said otherwise. What some of us are trying to say is that you should make an informed decision. Listening to those that have an obvious bias are not going to give you the whole truth but their biased version of it.

And if they decide not to shell out 9 bucks to see a movie that degrades their beliefs, then they shouldn't be accused of religious tyranny!
That's the point. If you were to inform yourself on the topic you'd know that the movie does not degrade the Christian religion.

Anti-Christian influences is not a person, but a social influence. Anti Christian means opposite or opposed to Christian. It is obvious that the current social norms of our society are opposite, or opposed to, Christian teachings.
That's not what the movie is about. And, besides, what's wrong with being opposed to the christian religion? How is that any different than the christians being opposed to other religions?

[mary oleary]

To seek one view to the exclusion of all others is not a very good way to get to the truth of the matter. You will necessarily end up with an extremely biased, and incorrect, view.


Because history proves your view to be wrong. No one has done anything in the name of "Atheistic Evolution," what ever that is. Many have done great harm to humanity in the name of, and with the blessings of, the Christian religion.


Uh.... what world do you live in?


They can boycott whatever they want. I also have rights and one of those rights is that pesky freedom of speech.


The point of the boycott was not about consumers, but about religion. The boycott is based entirely on religious grounds and the false belief that a certain religion was being attacked. The sad part is that people blindly, and blissfully, followed along.


The movie was about religious oppression. If "the populous" has to be swayed against religious oppression, then we are in trouble.


Did anyone here mention Santa Claus?

Santa debate is another thread in this forum. Many posters here, posted there.
Ever hear of Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin? They embraced Humanistic (atheist)evolution and used it as a tool to rid society of the "weak"... Millions were persecuted and killed.

The truth is that people are barbaric by nature, and will use any excuse to oppress other people. Western culture's most revolutionary idea was " all people are endowed by their Creator"

The Catholic /Christian Church most certainly can NOT be accused by any educated person to be the most barbaric organization in recorded history.

Even in Modern History, "Christian" nations have the best humanitarian practices. Including your right to free speech.

I find it revealing that Yosemite Joy assumes that those who don't share her taste in books must therefore be ignorant. But that isn't categorized as intolerance, or Christian bashing. The Banning efforts referred to were not to prevent publication, but to prevent MANDATING that children read them in Public school. AREN'T we all against forced reading?

[Yosemite Joy]

Mary and Pat,


I, for one would definitely not endorse it since I would consider the "source"(the author). Remember, there are people who do consider the sources of their entertainments.



Stay away from these authors:
Vonnegut
Douglas Adams
Harold Pinter
George Bernard Shaw
Dave Barry
and more...

these actors/directors/etc:
Woody Allen
George Carlin (stand up comedian)
Ricky Gervalis (no more Office for you)
Paul Giamanti
Katharine Hepburn
Gene Wilder (get the kids away from The Chocolate Factory!)


and dozens more..

[Yosemite Joy]

I find it revealing that Yosemite Joy assumes that those who don't share her taste in books must therefore be ignorant. But that isn't categorized as intolerance, or Christian bashing.


That isn't my "taste" in books. Those are books Christians have banned. I haven't read all of the books. However, censorship usually does equal ignorance.

[mary oleary]

No, any rational standard. The movie, and the books, were not about the christian religion. They were about religious oppression. But you'd know that if you had bothered to read the books. No god is killed off in any of the books. The "Authority" in the books is something that claims to be a god, but is not. I do not want to give away much of the book - but no one kills any god and no one kills the "Authority." Read the books and you'll understand.

Those speaking out against the movie are doing so based on the books, and the author's stated intent, as quoted in a previous post, regarding an agenda that is clearly anti-Christian in particular and anti-religion in general.

Read the reviews posted and see for yourself.

[mary oleary]

That isn't my "taste" in books. Those are books Christians have banned. I haven't read all of the books. However, censorship usually does equal ignorance.
Obviously Christians didn't Ban those books- because you read them...

However, Do you think that all forms of censorship should be banned? What would you censor from your children? Do you think the public school should have the authority to expose your children to whatever it chooses?

Wasn't banning prayer in school a form of censorship? Was it a bad use of censorship?

We all draw lines Joy. That's the point. Christians should be free to draw lines for their own children, and free to utilize whatever source they want to draw those lines, and free from being called ignorant because of their choices. Just like anyone else.

[Dodgergirl]

Not sure of where his thread is going, but just a couple thoughts..

Hitler thought himself a Christian, he thought he was fighting for God when he ordered the deaths of so many...

Hitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." As a boy, Hitler attended to the Catholic church and experienced the anti-Semitic attitude of his culture. In his book, Mein Kampf, Hitler reveals himself as a fanatical believer in God and country.

My interpretation of this is the attitude that one cannot blindly follow anyone, one must educate oneself... whether it be a movie, a book, or something much more important. When I used to teach the Bible down south, I was amazed at the number of Christians who had never cracked open the book...,BUT they wanted to be educated, so they were starting with a basic class...

The other, more personal, sorta ironic aspect of this thread is the fact that many of the posters in this particular arena (on both sides of the debate) have your children/grandchildren in a Christian school... Is it out of convenience or do you want them to truly believe? Just an observation...

[jakobscalpel]

I think it is ironic that many posters on this thread also vehemently posted the egregious offense of anyone who suggests to their children there is no Santa Claus... and I bet they would boycott a movie that "exposes" that Santa is a myth!

This was an excellent attempt Mary. Unfortunately the Santa issue is about people presuming to decide what is best for other people's children. The golden compass debate (at least originally) is about a boycott based on a false premise. To make your Santa example equivalent to the golden compass debate, the "Santa Exposed!" movie would be boycotted because kids would find out there was no Santa. Of course, those actually watching the movie (or reading about what the movie actually contains), would know that Santa is never identified specifically and is in fact played by an imposter. The last line in the movie as the false Santa is unmasked is "And I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for you lousy kids!"


Ever hear of Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin? They embraced Humanistic (atheist)evolution and used it as a tool to rid society of the "weak"... Millions were persecuted and killed.

Yes, they also used ignorance, groupthink, and propaganda as their primary tools for getting people to implement these tasks. You know, the very same traits often found in religions, particularly in those trying to influence their adherents against certain undersirables.

[jakobscalpel]

You know Mary, the more I think about it, the more I agree with you. I think the boycott headlines and some of the rather hysterical hand-wringing over the books/movie are overblown and inaccurate, but the essentials fall in your corner. Personal choice, even if somewhat ill-informed or formed through group identification, remains personal choice.

Also, I'm wondering if the strong reaction against the boycott (my own included) mainly stems from the absurd conclusion you have to reach if you think religion is silly and basically a belief in a fiction. That conclusion? The religious boycott of the golden compass is a group believing in a fiction boycotting another fiction. If you feel this way, it is very hard to treat that viewpoint with respect. But it should be treated with respect right? Otherwise it is just censorship in reverse. Oh well. Fun while it lasted.

[mary oleary]

Not sure of where his thread is going, but just a couple thoughts..

Hitler thought himself a Christian, he thought he was fighting for God when he ordered the deaths of so many...

Hitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." As a boy, Hitler attended to the Catholic church and experienced the anti-Semitic attitude of his culture. In his book, Mein Kampf, Hitler reveals himself as a fanatical believer in God and country.

Hitler may have presented himself as a Christian, but was not actually a Christian. He was very into the occult, and loved Darwinian evolution. There is nothing about Hitler that is submitted to Christianity, and he persecuted the Christians in his nation. Just as David Koresh, or Jim Jones were not representatives of the Christian faith, neither was Hitler.
My interpretation of this is the attitude that one cannot blindly follow anyone, one must educate oneself... whether it be a movie, a book, or something much more important. When I used to teach the Bible down south, I was amazed at the number of Christians who had never cracked open the book...,BUT they wanted to be educated, so they were starting with a basic class...
I agree!

The other, more personal, sorta ironic aspect of this thread is the fact that many of the posters in this particular arena (on both sides of the debate) have your children/grandchildren in a Christian school... Is it out of convenience or do you want them to truly believe? Just an observation...

That is an interesting point. People expect Christians to behave better than non-christians... you never hear "and they call them self an atheist!"

And people like many of the "good" values taught in Christian schools as compared to the lack of values taught in secular schools.

[mary oleary]

In fact, the movie is about exactly what you are doing; religious tyranny. They don't kill a god, they kill something that CLAIMS to be a god. They do so because of the tyranny of the minions off that usurper. If you had read the books, you'd know that.

Besides, the movie has been cleansed of any religious references. It seems the tyranny and censorship if religions have already had their effects. :(

Face it David- It's the tyranny of the Almighty Buck that had it's effect. It was "cleansed" of it's more obvious religious references because the producer wants to make a buck. Not because of any response to religious tolerance.rolleyes:

[Yosemite_Wolf]

Its a frickin book!! It is FANTASY. Lets stop attacking each other and enjoy the holiday season. You celebrate Christmas, I celebrate Yuletide, and some celebrate Hannukuah. No one is bad for their beliefs... until it goes manic and one starts maiming women etc in the streets for not wearing such and such.

Happy Yuletide.


Cheers.

[David_V]

Santa debate is another thread in this forum. Many posters here, posted there.
Ever hear of Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin? They embraced Humanistic (atheist)evolution and used it as a tool to rid society of the "weak"... Millions were persecuted and killed.
They did not. There is no such thing as "Humanistic (atheist)evolution." Hitler was a christian and, just like Bush, has claimed to be doing the work of of his god.

The truth is that people are barbaric by nature, and will use any excuse to oppress other people. Western culture's most revolutionary idea was " all people are endowed by their Creator"

"Western culture" did not come up with that idea. A few men that saw first had what religions do when they take over a society and they wanted to end that bloody past.

The Catholic /Christian Church most certainly can NOT be accused by any educated person to be the most barbaric organization in recorded history.
I know you need to believe that, just look to history and you'll see the christian religion has a very bloody one. Almost a century of "crusades" and the various inquisitions where people were tortured and killed in the name of that religion.

Even in Modern History, "Christian" nations have the best humanitarian practices. Including your right to free speech.
Those are held on to in spite of the christian religion. Again, read a bit of history and not the sanitized version the various churches put out.

I find it revealing that Yosemite Joy assumes that those who don't share her taste in books must therefore be ignorant. But that isn't categorized as intolerance, or Christian bashing. The Banning efforts referred to were not to prevent publication, but to prevent MANDATING that children read them in Public school. AREN'T we all against forced reading?
Yet it is fine for christians to try to MANDATE children pray and read the bible in public schools?

[David_V]

That isn't my "taste" in books. Those are books Christians have banned. I haven't read all of the books. However, censorship usually does equal ignorance.

Censorship is their way of trying to control thought. That's exactly what the movie was about.

http://www.banned-books.com/bblist.html

[David_V]

Those speaking out against the movie are doing so based on the books, and the author's stated intent, as quoted in a previous post, regarding an agenda that is clearly anti-Christian in particular and anti-religion in general.

Read the reviews posted and see for yourself.

I read the reviews, and the books. Have you? I find the reviews do not fit the books.

[David_V]

Hitler may have presented himself as a Christian, but was not actually a Christian......
That's called The No True Scotsman Fallacy. Hitler, and others, were Christian. They believed in the jesus of the bible and all that other stuff. You have no right to claim that someone was not of the religion they claimed to be.

That is an interesting point. People expect Christians to behave better than non-christians... you never hear "and they call them self an atheist!"
That's because Atheists do not claim the moral high ground. Atheists do not claim to be more moral than others. Atheists do not claim to have invented morality. Atheists do not claim to be the sole arbiters of morality. Atheists do not claim that being an Atheist is the only way to be moral. Self proclaimed christians do make those claims.

And people like many of the "good" values taught in Christian schools as compared to the lack of values taught in secular schools.
Here's a concept for you..... teach your own kids morals instead of relying on the "secular schools" to do it for you. That's what Atheists do. And please tell me what "morals" the christian religion teaches that any other religion or non religion would teach their kids? The christian religion did not invent morals, nor is it a very good way of teaching kids morals. The fact that christians represent about 80% of the USA free population but represent 99% of the USA prison population. Only 0.05% of those in prison are Atheists.

Back to the movie - people were doing horrible things in the name of their religion. They were censoring science and knowledge. THAT is what the movie, and books, were against. Not religion in general. Those blindly following the religion and it's leaders were not prevented from immoral acts. Just think of the Taliban in our society and you'll have what the author was against.

[David_V]

Face it David- It's the tyranny of the Almighty Buck that had it's effect. It was "cleansed" of it's more obvious religious references because the producer wants to make a buck. Not because of any response to religious tolerance.rolleyes:
yes, it is sad that the religious censorship worked.

[CatdaBrat]

Its a frickin book!! It is FANTASY. Lets stop attacking each other and enjoy the holiday season. You celebrate Christmas, I celebrate Yuletide, and some celebrate Hannukuah. No one is bad for their beliefs... until it goes manic and one starts maiming women etc in the streets for not wearing such and such.

Happy Yuletide.


Cheers.

Hey, Wolfie...Happy Yuletide to you, too! I am busy decorating the Festivus pole right now. There will be the "Airing of Grievances" coming up soon, as well as the ever-popular "Feats of Strength." Celebrations are cool!

[Newcomer]

You guys, Let it go. Life is to short to be arguing about what some movie producer puts out. If you don't like it you don't have to watch it. Remember today could be mine or your last. do you really want to spend it debating a movie?

[mary oleary]

They did not. There is no such thing as "Humanistic (atheist)evolution." Hitler was a christian and, just like Bush, has claimed to be doing the work of of his god.

The Nazi idea of an Aryan Christ who uses the sword to cleanse the earth of the Jews—what historians call “Aryan Christianity”—was obviously a radical departure from the traditional Christian understanding and was condemned as such by Pope Pius XI at the time. Moreover, Hitler’s anti-Semitism was not religious, it was racial. Jews were targeted not because of their religion—indeed many German Jews were completely secular in their way of life—but because of their racial identity. This was an ethnic and not a religious designation. Hitler’s anti-Semitism was secular.

Hitler’s Table Talk, a revealing collection of the Fuhrer’s private opinions, assembled by a close aide during the war years, shows Hitler to be rabidly anti-religious. He called Christianity one of the great “scourges” of history, and said of the Germans, “Let’s be the only people who are immunized against this disease.” He promised that “through the peasantry we shall be able to destroy Christianity.” In fact, he blamed the Jews for inventing Christianity. He also condemned Christianity for its opposition to evolution.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/DineshDSouza/2007/11/05/was_hitler_a_christian&Comments=true


Yet it is fine for christians to try to MANDATE children pray and read the bible in public schools?

Who said That? Not me...You are really taking comments out of context.
I am not aware of any efforts by christians to mandate that children read the bible or pray in public schools. What are you refering to?

[David_V]

Hey, Wolfie...Happy Yuletide to you, too! I am busy decorating the Festivus pole right now. There will be the "Airing of Grievances" coming up soon, as well as the ever-popular "Feats of Strength." Celebrations are cool!
Don't forget to light a bonfire for the Solstice.... if it's a "burn day." The Sun needs the help to start growing for Spring. I've been doing it for years, and it works! I missed one year and we had a late Spring. It was all my fault. :(

[David_V]

Hitler’s anti-Semitism was secular.
It was not. It was based on the religious beliefs of the day. Read up a bit on Martin Luther and you'll see antisemitism in it's most virulent form.

He also condemned Christianity for its opposition to evolution.
That does not invalidate the fact of evolution.

Who said That? Not me...You are really taking comments out of context.
I am not aware of any efforts by christians to mandate that children read the bible or pray in public schools. What are you refering to?
You've never been to the South, have you? I am referring to the constant push to get christian prayers back into public schools. That also includes the constant efforts of many self proclaimed christians to have their dogma, in the form of creationism, forced into our public schools. Trying to censor our literature and movies is just as abhorrent.

[mary oleary]

Your argument disputing the information presented is so....lacking.

You may well have said "Nuh-uh, is not"

And the general reference to " they" and "Those Christians down south" is less than convincing that you have any first hand, or second hand or any valid information regarding your assertions that christians are seeking to MANDATE prayer and bible reading in public schools...

Plus your constant blaming of "those christians", for the commercial decision of hollywood movie publishers to whitewash the movie based on a book that was apparently much more anti-religious than the movie, is really off the mark.

But whatever....it's pointless and tiresome now. if you think that a boycott is equal to censure, than you have the meaning of "rights" all confused.

[David_V]

Your argument disputing the information presented is so....lacking.

You may well have said "Nuh-uh, is not"
Have you read the books?

And the general reference to " they" and "Those Christians down south" is less than convincing that you have any first hand, or second hand or any valid information regarding your assertions that christians are seeking to MANDATE prayer and bible reading in public schools...
Then you must be living in a cave or are intentionally being obtuse.

Plus your constant blaming of "those christians", for the commercial decision of hollywood movie publishers to whitewash the movie based on a book that was apparently much more anti-religious than the movie, is really off the mark.
Have you read the book? How do you know it is "anti religious"?

But whatever....it's pointless and tiresome now. if you think that a boycott is equal to censure, than you have the meaning of "rights" all confused.
The boycott, based on lies, is an attempt to censure anything that may be construed as anti religious.

We disagree.... but I've read the books, seen the movie, and made an informed decision. I'll stick with that.

[mary oleary]

I know you need to believe that, just look to history and you'll see the christian religion has a very bloody one. Almost a century of "crusades" and the various inquisitions where people were tortured and killed in the name of that religion.
By the eighth century, Muslim armies had conquered all of Christian North Africa and Spain. In the eleventh century, the Seljuk Turks conquered Asia Minor (modern Turkey), which had been Christian since the time of St. Paul. The old Roman Empire, known to modern historians as the Byzantine Empire, was reduced to little more than Greece. In desperation, the emperor in Constantinople sent word to the Christians of western Europe asking them to aid their brothers and sisters in the East.

That is what gave birth to the Crusades. They were not the brainchild of an ambitious pope or rapacious knights but a response to more than four centuries of conquests in which Muslims had already captured two-thirds of the old Christian world.

If the crusades hadn't happened your name might be Mamoud, and you wouldn't be talking about this movie...this movie wouldn't exist, and the author would have been executed.

Those are held on to in spite of the christian religion. Again, read a bit of history and not the sanitized version the various churches put out.


Yes- I agree read a bit of history...dig a little deeper. The Crusades didn't just happen... And EVERY Ancient Kingdom/ ruling forces had it's atrocities - People Kill, and they will use whatever excuse that suits them.

[mary oleary]

Have you read the books?
Have you read the book? How do you know it is "anti religious"?

The boycott, based on lies, is an attempt to censure anything that may be construed as anti religious.

We disagree.... but I've read the books, seen the movie, and made an informed decision. I'll stick with that.

The boycott is based on a Christian world view. That world view includes: God is real, sin is real, and Jesus Christ is the Savior from the judgement for sin.

You may not agree with that world view, and you may think it's all lies, but that doesn't mean that when christians act according to thier world view that they are attempting to censure anything.

If they want to organize and boycott to send a message to Hollywood that they misjudged the appetite of this demographic, then more power to them! If they wanted to picket the theatres, they would be expressing themselves in one of our most protected and valued rights.

To accuse them of "censure" is outrageous and incredibly self serving, plainly inaccurate, and a form of predjudice. No one is trying to prevent you from seeing this movie, or prevent the movie from being shown.

remember the slogan " look for the union label"?

[David_V]

By the eighth century, Muslim armies had conquered all of Christian North Africa and Spain.
And the arts and education flourished during that time.

In the eleventh century, the Seljuk Turks conquered Asia Minor (modern Turkey), which had been Christian since the time of St. Paul. The old Roman Empire, known to modern historians as the Byzantine Empire, was reduced to little more than Greece. In desperation, the emperor in Constantinople sent word to the Christians of western Europe asking them to aid their brothers and sisters in the East.

That is what gave birth to the Crusades. They were not the brainchild of an ambitious pope or rapacious knights but a response to more than four centuries of conquests in which Muslims had already captured two-thirds of the old Christian world.
And during that time the arts and education flourished.

If the crusades hadn't happened your name might be Mamoud, and you wouldn't be talking about this movie...this movie wouldn't exist, and the author would have been executed.
And we would never have had the Inquisitions and many libraries would not have been burnt down and we never would have had the Dark Ages.

Yes- I agree read a bit of history...dig a little deeper. The Crusades didn't just happen... And EVERY Ancient Kingdom/ ruling forces had it's atrocities - People Kill, and they will use whatever excuse that suits them.
I did dig deeper.

[David_V]

The boycott is based on a Christian world view.
It was based on the idea that the christian world view should be the only one.

That world view includes: God is real, sin is real, and Jesus Christ is the Savior from the judgement for sin.
Do they think no one already knows that?

You may not agree with that world view, and you may think it's all lies, but that doesn't mean that when christians act according to thier world view that they are attempting to censure anything.
The history of that religion shows they do. If it is not a "christian" view it needs to be censored or battled against. A simple disagreement is not enough.

If they want to organize and boycott to send a message to Hollywood that they misjudged the appetite of this demographic, then more power to them! If they wanted to picket the theatres, they would be expressing themselves in one of our most protected and valued rights.
Trying to suppress freedom of religion is a valued right?

To accuse them of "censure" is outrageous and incredibly self serving, plainly inaccurate, and a form of predjudice. No one is trying to prevent you from seeing this movie, or prevent the movie from being shown.

remember the slogan " look for the union label"?
Their attempt was not to send a message, but to censure.

[Yosemite_Wolf]

I just saw the movie and it was wonderful! Great effects. I love Iorek Byrnison! The movie sooo left me hanging and Ive read all the books. I can't wait until they make The Subtle Knife into a movie too. :)

[beautiful_mess38]

I saw the movie with Wolfie and took my 8 year old. I honestly don't see what the controversy is all about. No cussing, nudity, blood, gore nothing. Just a fun fantasy movie with great special effects. I loved the bears. I asked Delaney did you like the movie she said yes. I said what was it about, she said the mean people wanted to take the kids souls. and thier souls are the animals. Thats what she got out of it. don't think she's to corrupted.

[oakhurstleaf]

Thanks for the reviews. I'll be taking my kids to see it too.

[beautiful_mess38]

Hey, Wolfie...Happy Yuletide to you, too! I am busy decorating the Festivus pole right now. There will be the "Airing of Grievances" coming up soon, as well as the ever-popular "Feats of Strength." Celebrations are cool!


Can I decorate my dance pole and celebrate Yuletide with you guys....lol

[David_V]

I just saw the movie and it was wonderful! Great effects. I love Iorek Byrnison! The movie sooo left me hanging and Ive read all the books. I can't wait until they make The Subtle Knife into a movie too. :)
I want to see the wheeled creatures in the third book. I hope this does well enough for them to make the other two movies. Or have they done them all already?

[mary oleary]

And the arts and education flourished during that time.


And during that time the arts and education flourished.


And we would never have had the Inquisitions and many libraries would not have been burnt down and we never would have had the Dark Ages.


I did dig deeper.

Are you suggesting that the expansion of Islam by war, before the Crusades, was beneficial to the peoples and countries that were conquered?

And that they should have submitted to Islamic rule?

[David_V]

Are you suggesting that the expansion of Islam by war, before the Crusades, was beneficial to the peoples and countries that were conquered?

And that they should have submitted to Islamic rule?
Why should they submit to christian rule?

[mary oleary]

should I take that as a Yes?

your position:

The countries conquered by Islam, which resulted in a huge Islamic empire, were better off than they had been under the prior ruling systems. The Islamic conquests freed people from the oppressive Christian rulers.
Is that your position?

Or is your position:

Anything is better than "Christian" rule?

[David_V]

should I take that as a Yes?
No.
Or is your position: Anything is better than "Christian" rule?
No.

Why does it have to be christian rule or war?

[Yosemite_Wolf]

this is getting way off topic! Where are the moderators to moderate? Admin?

[mary oleary]

Your right Yosemite wolf, sorry.:(

Sometimes I just cant let misleading information go unchallenged.

[Sandman]

Thanks YW for reminded people to stay on topic.

[David_V]

this is getting way off topic! Where are the moderators to moderate? Admin?
You're mostly right. The conversation has been about religious dominance and atrocities done by and for religions. That's what the movie was about and that's what the author has tried to point out. Religion is fine but not those that use it for control or power.