how much is your heating bill?

[captin sanchez]

I tryed to use the propain heaterfor a month It cost $300 that was in late oct early nov.
switched to two ceramic heaters I bought at rite aid $45 ea, thay havent turned off since I bought them and the power bill is $110 a month.

my house is 1000 sf all brick with single pain windows and bad attic insulation

no fire place.

what is your heating bill and sorce?

[Sandman]

I use Propane heaters in the house. I have learned that the trick is to never turn them up to high. They have dials 1 through 10 and I never turn it up past 6. In fact, I usually keep it at about 1 or 2 and my house stays plenty warm enough. There have been a few times they were turned up to high and I noticed it sucked up a lot of propane. Keeping them on at all times and at a lower settings works much better. I also have electric heaters, but they do not do the job as well when trying to heat the whole house. I didn't notice too much of an increase in power bill since I started using them, but I still use propane. I just use the electric heater in my bedroom and bathroom.

I think the best way to go is a wood/pellet burning stove, then I would guess propane heaters, but perhaps electric is the way to go since the price of gas is so high.

[beautiful_mess38]

I use my woodstove. Much rather clean up the mess then pay a propane bill.

[Ironhorse]

My central air heating uses propane and I can never keep my place warm enough (about 800 to 900 sq ft I think) at a price I can afford. I'm gone most of the time this time of year and keep my thermostat set at 62-65 so that nothing freezes while I'm gone and I don't come home to broken water lines inside. I got my bill for last cycle (11/15 to 12/13 or something like that) and it was over $200!!!!!!! Outrageious, hate to think what it would have been if I had been home all the time. I was only home for 6 days! When I'm home the thermostat gets raised to 70 during the day and lowered to 67 at night. I have a small electric heater in my bedroom by the computer that I use during the day. My electric bill runs about $25-$35 during the winter. During times when I was home more, I had my propane bill go over $377/month, really painful on a fixed income. I have a fireplace, but it's not meant to be used to heat the place, so I can't have large fires in it. Wish I could as I can get all my oak firewood for free. I'm sure my insulation is shot, don't know how old it is., but the condos were built in the 80's I think. This next year I'll be trying to get the outer walls and attic re-insulated. Hopefully that will help.

[Meat Man]

All this talk of propane. Don't people have gas heat in Yosemite?

My gas bill is around $60-$100. I have central heat and air.

[monkey]

Just paid my $350.00 propane bill for a month.

[Ironhorse]

All this talk of propane. Don't people have gas heat in Yosemite?

My gas bill is around $60-$100. I have central heat and air.


In the mountains, you have propane, no natural gas, also rural areas (um, that's farm country) around here, it's propane, not natural gas, that's only in the valley cities you'll find the natural gas.

[beautiful_mess38]

I use my woodstove to heat up my house but here's my last propane bill. Pioneer Propane
$268gl. filled up 105 gallons for a totol of $285.37. good thing I wasnt completely empty still had 35% left.

[Meat Man]

In the mountains, you have propane, no natural gas, also rural areas (um, that's farm country) around here, it's propane, not natural gas, that's only in the valley cities you'll find the natural gas.

Thank you for explaining that for me:)

How is the water? Philly has some good water. People will always say this and that, but I like it and never got sick.

[CatdaBrat]

My heating bill is the cost of a woodcutting permit (during the few years when there isn't enough firewood right on the property) ...haven't used the central heating system for 21 years.

[BGW]

My heating bill is the cost of a woodcutting permit (during the few years when there isn't enough firewood right on the property) ...haven't used the central heating system for 21 years.

Ditto that! It takes me 3 or 4 years to go through 200gal. of propane. I do use the central heat when we have company or since my water pipes travel through the attic--when there is snow on the roof. I figure an entire winter's heating bill--including gas, bar oil, wood tags etc. + Propane runs at the very most $150 for a 4 to 5 month period.

[Ironhorse]

I would use wood to heat my house more, but my fireplace isn't intended to heat the house, it's one of those that's more "decorative". I hope that next year I might be able to have it "fixed" so an insert that will actually do some heating could be put in. Then I could ask my dad and son to cut more dead wood down for me too.

The water???? Hillview Water Company runs that for most in town and the water is contaminated with mercury and such. Recently, according to the paper, it is supposed to be "better" because of new wells, but we haven't gotten any notices where I am that our water isn't still contaminated. So I use bottled water for drinking and cooking. My parents are outside of the city limits and have their own well (uncontminated). Some people with their own wells have the same contamination I have. You learn to deal with it.

[Meat Man]

I would use wood to heat my house more, but my fireplace isn't intended to heat the house, it's one of those that's more "decorative". I hope that next year I might be able to have it "fixed" so an insert that will actually do some heating could be put in. Then I could ask my dad and son to cut more dead wood down for me too.

The water???? Hillview Water Company runs that for most in town and the water is contaminated with mercury and such. Recently, according to the paper, it is supposed to be "better" because of new wells, but we haven't gotten any notices where I am that our water isn't still contaminated. So I use bottled water for drinking and cooking. My parents are outside of the city limits and have their own well (uncontminated). Some people with their own wells have the same contamination I have. You learn to deal with it.

Wow that really is something. Bottled water for everything? I'd move.
I really would. Funny thing happen over here in PA. There is a town called Warminster. It is just outside of Philly. Nice split level homes, 2 car garages exc..

Well, they built around 500 new homes on an old air base. People started getting sick so they did a test on the water. Turns out that some left over chemical went into the ground from the navy base. People STILL live there and drink the water.

[jakobscalpel]

~425 last month

I'm suddenly motivated to start splitting wood again.

[Summer]

$279 for 3 months. We use the wood stove a LOT! Got most of our wood free this year - collected, chopped ourselves. The summer labor paid off!

[Kahlua Kid]

Probably $150-200 a month in propane in the winter months... and that's with us only heating one zone in the house at a time (the rooms/area we happen to be in at the time). We have 3 zones we can choose to run one, two or all at a time)... the central heater SUCKS the propane!!!

And that's with supplementing with burning wood in our insert in the evenings from 5-9 each night and on weekend days.

I'm very thankful we bought our own propane tank shortly after we bought our place in the mountains. We can "shop" our propane price when we need to fill up and aren't "stuck" with the propane dealer we would be renting the tank from in a contract that you can only buy from them. Recent comparison pricing - propane dealer that would have been a contracted dealer was $3.30 a gallon - dealer we went with $2.60 a gallon - makes a difference when you are filling up 400 gallons!

[WE Mag Publisher]

I am considering buying a wood burning stove- I've found a couple websites that offer them for $200 - $400 (plus venting, installation I'd have to pay for...) Anyone have any experience with the Drolet Compak Wood Stove- it's listed on Amazon for $486.

[Yosemite_Wolf]

you want a stove, go over to CCS in Oakhurst. I love shopping on line, but when it comes to stoves etc.. buying them in person is the best :)

[mountainmissy]

The San Joaquin Valley Unified Air Pollution Control District is holding a public workshop in Oakhurst concerning newly proposed rules and regulations that will further restrict use of our woodstoves. At this meeting, the District will "present proposed amendments to the public and allow time for public questions and comments." Written comments will also be accepted until August 28. The District would like to implement the new rules during the 2008-2009 wood burning season.

Tuesday, August 12 at 6:30 p.m.
Oakhurst Community Center
39800 Road 425B

You can view a copy of the staff report at:
www.valleyair.org/Workshops/postings/2008/08-08_4901/R4901_StaffReport_W1.pdf

***The District plans to lower the mandatory curtailment level which will result in more woodburning prohibition days each year.

***The elevation exemption will be eliminated so that residences above 3,000 feet will be subject to mandatory curtailments (unless they have no other source of heat).

If use of your woodstove is important to you, please let your friends and neighbors know about this meeting and plan to attend...

[Ironhorse]

The way I'm reading the report, people who have no natural gas source would still be exempt from the restrictions. Propane (which the majority of homes up here have as their alternative heating source) is not considered a natural gas source, so homes up here would still be exempt from the woodburning restrictions. Am I reading that wrong???

[Iris]

I am interpreting it the same as Ironhorse; natural gas and propane are not the same...
What the report states in part on Page 8, item C:
"The elevation exemption will be removed so that residences above 3,000 feet will be subject to mandatory curtailments unless they qualify for another exemption, such as the exemption for those who do not have natural gas service. Since most areas at elevations above 3,000 feet do not have natural gas service, removing the elevation exemption will not affect many residents."

[mountainmissy]

Ironhorse, that is an interesting question. Propane is not a natural gas?? If that's true, thank you, thank you, thank you...

--------------

The difference between propane, or liquid petroleum gas (LPG), and natural gas comes down to their portability, compression, energy efficiency, and cost. However, there is generally no difference when it comes to performance in appliances for heating, cooking, or drying. The mixture of natural gas is comprised of propane, along with other gases like methane, butane, ethane, and pentane.

One difference in the physical properties of propane and natural gas is how easily they liquefy and transport. Propane turns into a liquid at —46° F (-43° C), so it's easy to compress and carry in a portable tank. You can buy compressed propane at most gas stations. It's decompressed by a valve at the source of use, such as a barbeque grill. Yet natural gas doesn't compress as easily. It usually comes to your home from a utility company along dedicated lines to power things like a central heating system, clothes dryer, and water heater.

Propane is heavier than air which is heavier than natural gas. Both natural gas and propane will dissipate into the air if they are released in an open enough environment and both can pose an explosive risk if they concentrate enough and are ignited. However, because propane is heavier, it tends to fall to the ground, collect, and pose a greater explosive risk. On the other hand, because natural gas is lighter than air, it tends to rise and dissipate into the air, posing less of an explosive risk.

Propane provides more energy per unit volume than does natural gas. Heat is measured in BTUs, or British Thermal Units. Propane provides about 2500 BTUs for the same volume of natural gas that only gives 1000 BTUs. However, natural gas can be less expensive at up to one-sixth the cost of propane, depending on where you live. Utilities in colder climates might supply natural gas for less money, especially during winter months. Some rural areas don't have access to a utility company that provides gas service.

[mountainmissy]

Just called Jessica Hafer at the Air Quality Board to ask about propane or electricity as an alternative source of heat. She said if people don't have natural gas then they are exempt. That propane or electricity as a heat source are not even part of the discussion; if you have propane or electricity it doesn't matter. The key issue is that if you don't have natural gas...

[Ironhorse]

Just called Jessica Hafer at the Air Quality Board to ask about propane or electricity as an alternative source of heat. She said if people don't have natural gas then they are exempt. That propane or electricity as a heat source are not even part of the discussion; if you have propane or electricity it doesn't matter. The key issue is that if you don't have natural gas...

So people who only have propane are exempt anyway right? I was exempt last year I know, even though I'm only at about 2200 feet. Good grief, the cost of having to rely solely on the propane heating would put us all in the poor house up here. I know the first year I moved up here, 7 years ago, I thought oh cool, I have propane stater line in my fireplace for getting the wood burning. I used it till I got my first propane bill and almost had a heart attack and learned to start a fire with kindling! As it is, my bill can reach over $300/month, using my wood fireplace too to heat here in winter. And that was at last years rates. And I still walk around cold except for when I'm in bed or near my fireplace, so it's not like I have the thermostat set at 80 or anything like that. Usually it's set at 71 or 72, and winter time, that's cold up here!

[jjcheyenne]

I don't have propane or natural gas. My house is all electric. I can not use my heater because it is very old and when I use it for even 1/2 hour a day, just in the morning when I get home from work to warm the house up from 35 degrees to 55 so I can sleep, it runs my electric bill up to over $100. I can't afford that. So, I rely on my wood burning stove for heat. If they tell me I can't use my wood burning stove, I am in trouble!! My house gets down to 35 degrees in the winter time if I can't light up. Am I one of the ones they are going to tell that I can't use my wood burning stove anymore? Or am I exempt? I live at 3200 feet elevation.

[Iris]

Regardless of elevation, the fact that a resident does not have access to natural gas exempts them from the wood burning restrictions; and as mountainmissy pointed out, electricity is not even an issue, so don't worry. The report states on page 4:

The July 2003 amendment to Rule 4901 also required episodic wood burning curtailments whenever an Air Quality Index (AQI) of 150 or greater, currently equivalent to a 24-hour average PM2.5 concentration of greater than 65 μg/m³, was predicted. During curtailments under Rule 4901 as amended in 2003, a wood burning fireplace or wood burning heater is not to be used unless it is at an elevation of 3,000 feet or more, it is in a location where natural gas service is not available, or it is the sole source of heat in a residence.

[mountainmissy]

In a telephone conversation with Jessica Hafer at the San Joaquin Valley Air Quality Board, she provided the following clarification on the proposed rules concerning woodstove restrictions.

***The proposed rules specifically target residences that have access to natural gas service as an alternate heating source (propane is not considered natural gas).

***If your only source of heat is a woodstove, you are exempt from these proposed rules as of now

***If your alternate source for heat is propane, you are exempt from these proposed rules as of now

***If your alternate source for heat is electric heat, you are exempt from these proposed rules as of now

There is still concern that once these proposed rules which lower the mandatory curtailment threshold and eliminate the 3,000 foot exemption are adopted, it will only be a matter of time before the District might seek future amendments targeting residences with other alternate sources of heat (e.g., propane, electric heat, etc.).

The August 12 meeting is important for residents to clarify the situation for themselves...

[wings]

That is truly good news. Besides propane being very expensive. Having a good fire buring in the wood stove is part of the whole ambiance of the mountains. I can see helping out to make sure the wood burning stoves are up to par with the newer standards. I know when ours is burning good and hot the only thing I see out the pipe is heat waves. Speaking of wood burning stoves it is time to get more wood for winter... Any ideas who has good wood? Oak and Madrone seem to be the best heat producers. I haven't had to buy some in a while. Thanks

[Pop-Rocks]

Surfus went down to Fresno to the Air Resource Board meeting today. If you have any questions about what went on at the meeting call 559-683-8367 Climate Control Systems.

Thank You