Hope this doesn't happen in Madera...

[Dodgergirl]

Santa Barbara CHP grant targets drunken driver `Sideways' effect...

The California Highway Patrol blames an increase in wine country drunken driving arrests and crashes on the "Sideways" effect.

The 2004 hit movie "Sideways" set in the San Ynez Valley vineyards led to a stampede to the area's 90 wine tasting rooms, and there was suddenly a rise in drunken driving incidents.

The Santa Barbara Area CHP just got $658,000 grant to crack down on drinking and driving in the wine country.

CHP Officer Donald Clotworthy says the popularity of "Sideways" led to a burst of wine-related activities. He says "Santa Barbara County has become wine country for Southern California."

Information from: Santa Barbara News-Press, http://www.newspress.com

[only1alphafemale]

Please forgive my ignorance in this, but what is the "sideways' effect? ( I rarely go to movies, or watch alot of tv..)

[Dodgergirl]

The 2004 hit movie "Sideways" set in the San Ynez Valley vineyards led to a stampede to the area's 90 wine tasting rooms

[only1alphafemale]

Ahhhh, got it. Thank you.

[Chem101]

"Sideways" Is an interesting social comedy/Romance movie about a teacher/writer/wine connsuer and his philandering, engaged actor side kick visiting the wine country north east of Santa Barbara. My wife hated it and I thought it was hilarious.

[David_V]

Santa Barbara CHP grant targets drunken driver `Sideways' effect...

The California Highway Patrol blames an increase in wine country drunken driving arrests and crashes on the "Sideways" effect.....
I hope it does, not an increase in drunk drivers, but an increase in catching them. I have absolutely no sympathy for anyone driving drunk. The first offense for someone caught drunk driving should be an automatic one year in jail. No questions asked. Second offense; 5 years. Third; life.

I go wine tasting myself. When done responsibly one does not consume more than a glass of wine during a whole day of tasting.

[Sandman]

While I agree that drunk drivers need to be caught, I don't think jail is the best solution. Your punishment is too harsh. The tax dollars would not be able to afford all of the life sentences for drunk drivers. Nor would that help the situation. Our Governor is releasing non-violent criminals right now due to budget cuts. Adding life sentences for DUI's would only make our current situation worse. What we need to do is get these people some help... counseling, taking away driving privileges, etc. Make them watch videos of kids that lost their lives to drunk drivers... make them change their ways!

[beautiful_mess38]

The reason why this country has the highest criminal rate in the world is because punishments are not harsh enough. Obviously people are not learning from the the laws we have in place now. Make them tougher we have less criminals. You want a statistic look at the rest of the world and tell me if thier prisons are overcrowded. I think every prison should be like the one in Arizona...Tent City. Need more beds put up more tents. That simple. Thier gurards are trained like the marines. There tough.
Drunk drivers kill people. Drunk drivers should get a hard punishment to teach them the first time. Not the 3rd, 4th 5th. Take away thier license they drive anyway. Thats not going to stop them. I think 2 years in Tent City would.

[Ironhorse]

While I agree that drunk drivers need to be caught, I don't think jail is the best solution. Your punishment is too harsh. The tax dollars would not be able to afford all of the life sentences for drunk drivers. Nor would that help the situation. Our Governor is releasing non-violent criminals right now due to budget cuts. Adding life sentences for DUI's would only make our current situation worse. What we need to do is get these people some help... counseling, taking away driving privileges, etc. Make them watch videos of kids that lost their lives to drunk drivers... make them change their ways!

The drunk drivers are given help, or attempts are made to provide it. They're ordered to AA, ordered to counseling, ordered not to drive, have their licenses stripped from them (I remember a guy we stopped one night whose license had been "revoked" 23 times in the last 10 years, he just kept driving), their cars have been confiscated (they just drive someone else's car, they've been ordered to take medication that's supposed to make them extremely ill if they drink...............and they keep drinking anyway, devices put on their cars to prevent them from driving drunk............again, they just use someone else's car. Some drunk drivers don't want to change, or are unable to change, and the only way to keep people safe from them is to lock them up. JMO, seen to many drunk drivers in my life and far too many people that they have hurt.

[David_V]

While I agree that drunk drivers need to be caught, I don't think jail is the best solution. Your punishment is too harsh.
It's really not harsh enough. In some countries they get the death penalty.

The tax dollars would not be able to afford all of the life sentences for drunk drivers. Nor would that help the situation.
It would get them off the road.

Our Governor is releasing non-violent criminals right now due to budget cuts. Adding life sentences for DUI's would only make our current situation worse.
If they can't learn after a few years in prison, then letting them free to create more havoc in our society will make the situation worse.

What we need to do is get these people some help... counseling, taking away driving privileges, etc. Make them watch videos of kids that lost their lives to drunk drivers... make them change their ways!
I don't care if they change their ways just like they don't care about the people they kill. Just like the one that murdered my father didn't care about my father that he murdered, my mother, me, my 2 brothers and 2 sisters, or anyone else that would be effected.

"There were 16,885 alcohol-related fatalities in 2005 – 39 percent of the total traffic fatalities for the year." http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics.html

That's almost 2 people per hour being killed by drunk drivers. That's just those killed.

From the same site: "An estimated 254,000 persons were injured in crashes where police reported that alcohol was present — an average of one person injured approximately every 2 minutes."

Can we afford to NOT lock them up?

[David_V]

The drunk drivers are given help, or attempts are made to provide it. They're ordered to AA.....
That's another nasty can of worms many people are afraid to open. AA is a miserably ineffective program and is actually part of the problem. Only recently have the courts stopped mandating people specifically to that religious program.

[MadScot]

I'm curious what you think should happen to the larger 61%. Just like the drunk driver they made a bad decision which resulted in the death of another person. I'm not excusing the drunk driver I just think it should be taken on a case by case basis. I don't think it's right someone who had 2 drinks and gets stopped for something other than reckless driving be treated the same way as someone who is staggering drunk.

[MadScot]

Let me post a scenerio. You've had 2 glasses of wine with dinner. Your driving home doing the speed limit being very careful. As you approach the intersection someone runs the red light right in front of you. You manage to somehow miss the person who ran the light but the car next to you hits you and pushs you onto the sidewalk killing a pedestrian. You didn't cause the accident and had the person next to you not hit you, you would have been able to control your car and no one would have been hurt. When they give you the breath test you blow .001 over the limit. Should you get life in prison?

[Dodgergirl]

I'm glad this topic is causing people to think, but my intention was to say I hope we don't turn into the next Santa Barbara County. I like the small town feel of our wine trail..
BUT since this thread took a turn I didn't expect, I will share a few thoughts.
I, too, believe it should be taken on a case by case basis, and the sadly ironic thing is there are a couple of people on here who think the punishment of a drunk driver should be up there with murder (Like I said, case by case, so don't get all defensive) and I have personally seen so many people on this forum get trashed (thankfully I have a friend who stopped me when I thought I was 'OK') and drive home. Funny how we always think we're OK, but the other guy has problems.
And MadScot, I don't know how to respond to your question. Possibly the persons reflexes (if not under the influence) could have changed the direction of the car, but there are many other ways of being impaired which would cause slower reaction times...
But I do know that locking up people for DUI's is costing millions of $$ and it's been going on for years, so apparently that solution isn't working... I can remember when I was a kid in the SFV and every Monday morning the newspaper would print the names of the people picked up on (it was then called) a 502.
As for life sentences, hmmm, it may get them "off the road" as you say, then we, the taxpayers can not only pay for the care for the rest of their natural life, but take care of their families as well...
If there is a solution, I'd love to hear it, as I'm sure many others would...

[David_V]

I'm curious what you think should happen to the larger 61%. Just like the drunk driver they made a bad decision which resulted in the death of another person. I'm not excusing the drunk driver I just think it should be taken on a case by case basis. I don't think it's right someone who had 2 drinks and gets stopped for something other than reckless driving be treated the same way as someone who is staggering drunk.
The person killed by someone that's had two drinks is just as dead as the one killed by someone that drank the whole bottle.

[David_V]

Let me post a scenerio. You've had 2 glasses of wine with dinner. Your driving home doing the speed limit being very careful. As you approach the intersection someone runs the red light right in front of you. You manage to somehow miss the person who ran the light but the car next to you hits you and pushs you onto the sidewalk killing a pedestrian. You didn't cause the accident and had the person next to you not hit you, you would have been able to control your car and no one would have been hurt. When they give you the breath test you blow .001 over the limit. Should you get life in prison?
Yes. If it is your third time driving drunk. Or how about we give them the same chance the victims had?

[MadScot]

The person killed by someone that's had two drinks is just as dead as the one killed by someone that drank the whole bottle.
In the first post I was talking about someone getting pulled over for something like a out plate light or the local CHP favorite a plate blocked by a tow ball. I'm not an expert on the matter but I do know you can blow over the limit without actually being impared in your driving skills due to the absorbsion rate and body weight. I read your posts I understand this is a personal thing for you. I am sorry for your loss. I don't/can't drink just one drink could kill me. I can't even drive anymore the doctors say I'm in too much pain to drive safely. Sadly I can't really argue the point.

[David_V]

In the first post I was talking about someone getting pulled over for something like a out plate light or the local CHP favorite a plate blocked by a tow ball. I'm not an expert on the matter but I do know you can blow over the limit without actually being impared in your driving skills due to the absorbsion rate and body weight. I read your posts I understand this is a personal thing for you. I am sorry for your loss. I don't/can't drink just one drink could kill me. I can't even drive anymore the doctors say I'm in too much pain to drive safely. Sadly I can't really argue the point.
If you're over the limit; you're impaired. The guy that murdered my father was not sorry for our loss. He went on to murder two more people in a crash that took his life too. This was in the early 1950's. They were just "accidents" back then.

Don't worry, my ideas have absolutely no chance of ever becoming law.

[MadScot]

I try to make it a rule not to discuss this topic with those who have suffered a personal loss. I know from your other posts you are a reasonable person. I'll make this my last comment on the subject. I too have suffered great personal loss in my life so I do understand. I've lost 2 family members due to alcohol abuse I am thankful they didn't cause the death of anyone else. It is possible to blow over the limit and not be legally impaired. I've always heard the ratio was roughly one ounce per 100 pounds. If a person weighs say 225 and had 2 drinks they could fail a breath test and pass a blood test. The blood test is considered the definitive factor in determining impairment since it's the brain that is affected by the amount of alcohol in the blood. That's why I was making the point about 2 drinks. If you’re going to take a position that any amount of alcohol impairs ones ability I don't think there is any empirical evidence to back up that position. I'm all for getting drunk drivers off the road I just don't think it's always as simple as he had a drink so that makes him a murderer

[David_V]

I try to make it a rule not to discuss this topic with those who have suffered a personal loss. I know from your other posts you are a reasonable person. I'll make this my last comment on the subject. I too have suffered great personal loss in my life so I do understand. I've lost 2 family members due to alcohol abuse I am thankful they didn't cause the death of anyone else. It is possible to blow over the limit and not be legally impaired. I've always heard the ratio was roughly one ounce per 100 pounds. If a person weighs say 225 and had 2 drinks they could fail a breath test and pass a blood test. The blood test is considered the definitive factor in determining impairment since it's the brain that is affected by the amount of alcohol in the blood. That's why I was making the point about 2 drinks. If you’re going to take a position that any amount of alcohol impairs ones ability I don't think there is any empirical evidence to back up that position. I'm all for getting drunk drivers off the road I just don't think it's always as simple as he had a drink so that makes him a murderer
I did not say "any amount of alcohol impairs ones ability..." I have even said that I go wine tasting. I can go all day and consume the equivalent of a whole glass of wine.

Like I said, if you blow over the limit you are impaired. It's that simple. The formulas and rationalizations you gave are from people trying to come up with excuses to get out if drunk driving tickets.

If someone had several drinks, then went to a park and started shooting a gun and accidentally kills someone; is he a murderer? Why is someone that has been drinking killing someone accidentally with a car any different? It is not the one drink that makes the person a murderer, it is the multiple drinks and the irresponsibility that follows that does.

[Sandman]

Another thing to consider is if a drunk driver is getting pulled over and he knows that he will get life in prison since it is his third DUI, what would keep him from running from the cops in a high speed chase? It seems like we may have more people running if the crimes are known to be too harsh. Anyway, just a thought. I also agree that drunk drivers need to learn the lesson. I just think proper treatment is necessary... not just locking them up. More money should be put on educating people about the dangers to hopefully prevent it before it happens.

[David_V]

Another thing to consider is if a drunk driver is getting pulled over and he knows that he will get life in prison since it is his third DUI, what would keep him from running from the cops in a high speed chase?
With that line of logic we'd have to get rid of the "3 strikes" law. Which wouldn't be a bad thing. I'm definitely NOT a tough on crime advocate. It's just that for too long drunk drivers have been getting away, literally, with murder.

It seems like we may have more people running if the crimes are known to be too harsh. Anyway, just a thought. I also agree that drunk drivers need to learn the lesson. I just think proper treatment is necessary... not just locking them up. More money should be put on educating people about the dangers to hopefully prevent it before it happens.
If they kill someone they should get the same penalty as if they shot someone with a gun. They can get help in prison.

I once saw a good example of the type of lesson they need to be teaching. Four teenage boys were drunk and driving at a high rate of speed on a city street. They hit a divider, veered sharply to the right, then hit the back of a parked semi tractor trailer rig. They stopped so fast that they were decapitated. This happened a block from their high school. That car, blood and all, should have been towed to the entrance of that school and left there.

On lesson that they are teaching older kids is that you do not have to be drunk to be impaired. They drive a course and then have one drink and drive it again. They never do as well as they did before that one drink. At .08 you are impaired.

[CatdaBrat]

Going back to something mentioned at the beginning of this thread, it appears our society is incredibly influenced by movies. Maybe there should be some movies that show the tragic, not-so-glamorous sides of drinking...but then people may not want to go see them!

I have not gone on any wine trail events, but I hope they continue for the sake of those that do enjoy them.

Traveling in a vehicle is all too often taken lightly...the damn things are convenient, even necessary, but are still rolling coffins as far as I'm concerned. I must admit I would have to join the "no sympathy" side on the drunk driver issue. The victims don't get any more chances.

[only1alphafemale]

....... I must admit I would have to join the "no sympathy" side on the drunk driver issue. The victims don't get any more chances.

That is my view also.~ the no sympathy side ~ however in all honesty I dont believe a life in prison is the answer either.
You are going to have those individuals that are going to be repeat offenders, to those a harsher punishment is warranted like it would be in the case of any repeat offenders of any other crimes~

Then there is the view that alcoholism is a disease..... Fine its a disease. However its a disease that takes many innocent lives from behind the wheel of a car every year- not a disease as I know a disease to be... This disease has "choices" - where the others dont .....

Its how responsible a person is to begin with, and how responsible/irresponsible they remain or become when drinking~ We all know our limits. Face it, we do. Accountability is what we have to pay for our actions and choices.

I just recently heard it said on TV that Super Bowl Sunday, has turned into the biggest drinking day of the year.... Please everyone, have fun but be safe and sane so everyone can get home safe after the big game ~ :)

[Ironhorse]

That is my view also.~ the no sympathy side ~ however in all honesty I dont believe a life in prison is the answer either.
You are going to have those individuals that are going to be repeat offenders, to those a harsher punishment is warranted like it would be in the case of any repeat offenders of any other crimes~

Then there is the view that alcoholism is a disease..... Fine its a disease. However its a disease that takes many innocent lives from behind the wheel of a car every year- not a disease as I know a disease to be... This disease has "choices" - where the others dont .....

Its how responsible a person is to begin with, and how responsible/irresponsible they remain or become when drinking~ We all know our limits. Face it, we do. Accountability is what we have to pay for our actions and choices.

I just recently heard it said on TV that Super Bowl Sunday, has turned into the biggest drinking day of the year.... Please everyone, have fun but be safe and sane so everyone can get home safe after the big game ~ :)

If someone is going to be rehabilitated, it's going to happen the first or second time around. The rest, well, from what I saw, they become habitual. They learn "the program", learn the expected responses and BS they're way through the court and counseling, then get out and within a few months, they're picked up again. Those are the ones that can't be helped, they don't want to be helped, think they have no problem. Even if they kill someone, they think it's the other persons fault. And because of that, they're the ones that need to be locked away. JMO Nothing is worse than telling someone their loved one was killed by a drunk driver or murdered or by some other insanity from our society. I have little to no patience for the people that think most of these crumbs can be rehabilitated. When you see the same names, and the names of their sons, grandsons, great-grandsons (or female counterparts) march across your arrest ledgers, mugs shots, drug registrants, sex offenders registrants, etc. you begin to realize how little hope there is of helping these people help themselves. Either they don't want to be helped, or they are of the opinion that they have a God given right to prey on honest, hardworking people. Unfortunately, our society, by making excuses for these people about how they're the way they are because mommy didn't love them enough, or because they were privileged enough has created these monsters. If people knew what these guys really do in our prisons, maybe they wouldn't feel so sorry for them. again, JMO

[only1alphafemale]

I agreed with you Buzzard when I said " You are going to have those individuals that are going to be repeat offenders, to those a harsher punishment is warranted like it would be in the case of any repeat offenders of any other crimes~ "

I wasnt taking a soft or even a bleeding heart stance on this issue at all... :) Did my post come off differently when read? thanks ! :)

[Ironhorse]

I agreed with you Buzzard when I said " You are going to have those individuals that are going to be repeat offenders, to those a harsher punishment is warranted like it would be in the case of any repeat offenders of any other crimes~ "

I wasnt taking a soft or even a bleeding heart stance on this issue at all... :) Did my post come off differently when read? thanks ! :)

Not really, you had stated that you were on the no sympathy side. I was just rambling, LOL, talking about circumstances when it wouldn't mean much to try to rehab them. My youngest was an offender, almost killed two people in an accident, his "weapon of choice" was driving and drugs. Fortunately, he has turned his life around and is off drugs for 3 years now. He did his time, in prison, and almost ruined his life entirely. He's back on track with a good job. So I've seen both sides of the problems with DUI's, up close and personal.

[Summer]

I agreed with you Buzzard when I said " You are going to have those individuals that are going to be repeat offenders, to those a harsher punishment is warranted like it would be in the case of any repeat offenders of any other crimes~ "

I wasnt taking a soft or even a bleeding heart stance on this issue at all... :) Did my post come off differently when read? thanks ! :)

O1af, many times people on these forums (or any forums) take posts differently than what the writer was meaning. Goodness knows I have been taken out of context at times - especially when I try to be funny and it comes off as sarcasm. Guess I'm not a good communicator :eek: But I didn't get a bleeding heart stance from your post at all. I think it tied in with Ironhorse's statement that the offender, if they didn't "get it" from the first or second time, will most probably be a habitual offender. Getting back to the wine trails - wine tasting should be just that - taste and spit it out. That was also in the movie Sideways and had a very funny part of the depressed guy drinking the spitoon! But if you like to swallow your tastings why not get together with a group of your pals and rent a limo? I think some gals on here did that one time. I think that would be such an awesome thing for the next wine trail event - lots of good wine, chocolate and a limo!

[Ironhorse]

O1af, many times people on these forums (or any forums) take posts differently than what the writer was meaning. Goodness knows I have been taken out of context at times - especially when I try to be funny and it comes off as sarcasm. Guess I'm not a good communicator :eek: But I didn't get a bleeding heart stance from your post at all. I think it tied in with Ironhorse's statement that the offender, if they didn't "get it" from the first or second time, will most probably be a habitual offender. Getting back to the wine trails - wine tasting should be just that - taste and spit it out. That was also in the movie Sideways and had a very funny part of the depressed guy drinking the spitoon! But if you like to swallow your tastings why not get together with a group of your pals and rent a limo? I think some gals on here did that one time. I think that would be such an awesome thing for the next wine trail event - lots of good wine, chocolate and a limo!

See, Summer knows how I think, LOL

[only1alphafemale]

LOL..I thought I did too Buzz, but I was doubting that what I thought I had meant to say didnt come out right...Thank you summer for letting me know it read as I had meant for it to read...lol... I learned a long time ago, to ask for clarification if I doubted something I wrote may not have sounded like what I meant as its so easy to misunderstand someone :) Now if I havent totally confused everyone including myself !~~

I have never been on a wine tasting tour. It is something I have wanted to try but havent - yet. From what I understood as to how they work it would NOT be impossible for someone to get drunk from doing this but they would have to WORK at it... If they are done as they are meant to be enjoyed, its a relatively safe and sober experience?

[David_V]

Going back to something mentioned at the beginning of this thread, it appears our society is incredibly influenced by movies. Maybe there should be some movies that show the tragic, not-so-glamorous sides of drinking...but then people may not want to go see them!
Reality sucks. No one wants reality in their movies.

I have not gone on any wine trail events, but I hope they continue for the sake of those that do enjoy them.
So do I. I love going wine tasting. Except Merlot. I can't stand that awful wine. It's tastes like they filtered it through acorns. I'll stick to the desert wines.

Traveling in a vehicle is all too often taken lightly...the damn things are convenient, even necessary, but are still rolling coffins as far as I'm concerned. I must admit I would have to join the "no sympathy" side on the drunk driver issue. The victims don't get any more chances.
Several times my friends and I got a limo for the day. It's really not that expensive if the cost is split between 5 couples. Then we all spend the night at someone's house and get as drunk as we want on the marvelous wines we just bought.

[David_V]

If someone is going to be rehabilitated, it's going to happen the first or second time around. The rest, well, from what I saw, they become habitual. They learn "the program", learn the expected responses and BS they're way through the court and counseling, then get out and within a few months, they're picked up again.
That's a subject for another thread. The 12step program is largely responsible for those failures. It's an ineffective program. There are other methods that work far better. Only in the last few years have people been demanding that they not be sentenced to a religious program like the 12steps. The courts have to give options now.

Those are the ones that can't be helped, they don't want to be helped, think they have no problem. Even if they kill someone, they think it's the other persons fault. And because of that, they're the ones that need to be locked away.
That's why, in my scheme, that they get the same "3 strikes" that any other crime gets.

JMO Nothing is worse than telling someone their loved one was killed by a drunk driver or murdered or by some other insanity from our society.
I was only 4 at the time but I can still remember my mother screaming when she got the news.

I have little to no patience for the people that think most of these crumbs can be rehabilitated. When you see the same names, and the names of their sons, grandsons, great-grandsons (or female counterparts) march across your arrest ledgers, mugs shots, drug registrants, sex offenders registrants, etc. you begin to realize how little hope there is of helping these people help themselves. Either they don't want to be helped, or they are of the opinion that they have a God given right to prey on honest, hardworking people. Unfortunately, our society, by making excuses for these people about how they're the way they are because mommy didn't love them enough, or because they were privileged enough has created these monsters. If people knew what these guys really do in our prisons, maybe they wouldn't feel so sorry for them. again, JMO
Many of those you just mentioned can be helped. The present attitude of this society is that they just be stored for a few years and then released with minimal, if any, attempts at helping them.