God by any other name...........

[Ironhorse]

Not sure where this is going, or if it will even go anywhere. Mostly just rambling, so if you're not in the mood, move on, LOL. Kinda didn't know where to put this, politics or spiritual, figured here was best.

Anyway, as I was reading something this a.m. it struck me how so many are hung up on the words "One Nation Under God". Now I don't have any sort of problem with that, kinda have a relationship going there myself with God, he likes to speak to me at the oddest times. But right now there's a candidate who is running for President (Yes, the dreaded "O" word), and people are carrying on like it's the end of the world because he "reportedly" doesn't believe in a Christian god, gasp, he believes in an "infidel" god. Now the god I grew up with, in spite of all the teachings of the Catholic priests and nuns, has never once told me he was a "christian god". In fact, he told me he only had one name, god. And he's kinda like Santa Claus, no matter what language you speak, whatever word you call him, whether it's Yaweh, Allah, Buddha, God, Great Spirit, it's God. Of bigger concern to me would be does the person who believes in this God believe that he is an avenging/wrathful/bullying god, or is this a God who is loving/giving/helping? And has the person shown traits for which version of their God that they believe in, the "bad" one, or the "good" on. Right now, in today's world, people everywhere are afraid of Muslims, with some pretty good reasons. But as years have passed, we have found through more communications within their communities that they don't all believe in the vengence, the hatred, that all christians must die attituded displayed by the Jihadists. We have found that their Quuran is interpreted differently by various Imans, just are out bibles by Priests, Pastors, Reverends, Monks, Rabbi's.

I'd rather look at WHAT the person believes that what name he calls his God. So if the guy standing in Washington calls his god Allah, that's fine with me. Rumors/speculations/false stories have gotten so bad in this election, worse than I have ever seen it in my years. It will be much worse before it's over, especially as opportunites arise to put out false stories that the opposing side doesn't have time to repudiate or prove false. And people make mistakes in their youth, some learn, some don't. I still don't know who I'm voting for, but it will be based on what I have found to be fact, not unproven fiction or fears.

[Patagoniamaniac]

Here is something to think about....

The United States Pledge of Allegiance “One Nation Under God” dates back to 1892. It is said that it was meant as an expression of patriotism, not of religious faith. However there are many who would argue that it is an expression of both religion and patriotism.

Many believe that religion and the American culture are deeply entwined and that “One Nation Under God” is the summation of the country of as a whole. You might only look to political leaders and to President Bush to see that religion is infact deeply entwined in politics within the United States.

From the founding fathers to social reformers, to the slaves and business tycoons of America you will find the religion has been an essential ingredient in the forming of the American culture and it’s overall character. It affects the way government does business. It affects the way corporations do business, and it affects who people feel towards their country and about how their country runs.

”One Nation Under God” can be found in the hymns of the country, in the American anthem, in their literature, arts, and in their hearts. Religion has played a vital role in shaping the United States into the country it is today.

History doesn’t favor one religion. Many religions can be traced to the American forefathers beginning with the Native American belief system. “One Nation Under God” can be traced back to the Sikhs, Muslims, Jews, and Catholics during early times in history. It can even be traced back to the Quakers.

The power of religion and prayer was very evident after the tragic 911 events. It was evident during the 2004 presidential election, and it was evident during the recent destruction by Hurricane Katrina.

Prayer is important to people from all walks of life. From the immigrants to the farmer. From the clergy to the President. From the industrialist to the rock star.

Historians believe that “One Nation Under God” shows the power of prayer in the American people. They believe that without prayer American would be a very different place culturally, socially, and economically. Whether one wishes to believe it or not, a study of America will quickly reveal that prayer is deeply rooted in the philosophies and beliefs of the country.

So even if you believe that religion and politics should be kept separate, and that religion has no place in the American School system, the achievement of this goal might see a dramatic change in the American culture as a whole. In fact a change to this method of thinking might actually undermine the stability of the country.

Breaking away from what is entrenched in America’s roots may be more difficult to accomplish than one might think at first glance. For to turn away now from what was the basis of the building of America and what we know today would indicate that America was built on a fallacy. Now what would that do for the moral and ethical values of the country?

Like it or not religion and the American culture do go hand in hand. Whether “One Nation Under God” was intended to be an expression of patriotism, or an expression of religious faith may be difficult to prove, but it matters not for America has become what it is based on its history.

“One Nation Under God” does not discriminate between religions, religious beliefs, or where those religious beliefs came from. It recognizes the Americas as a melting pot where cultures come together and religious beliefs come together to practice their religious beliefs. “One Nation Under God” is actually many cultures under many God’s under one nation. Food for thought in the 21st Century.

http://www.articleclick.com/religion-god.html

[Ironhorse]

From Patagoniamaniac:
“One Nation Under God” does not discriminate between religions, religious beliefs, or where those religious beliefs came from. It recognizes the Americas as a melting pot where cultures come together and religious beliefs come together to practice their religious beliefs. “One Nation Under God” is actually many cultures under many God’s under one nation. Food for thought in the 21st Century. "


And my point was that YES, in the 21st Century it is a melting pot, and it does meld cultures, people, religious beliefs. So "why" do people rant so loud and carry on so much about a "Muslim" in the White House?????????????? People who were fine with him as a candidate until it hit the fan over being Muslim, and his pastor, etc. Has any one seen by that man's actions, words, plans that he hates Americans, America??????? Instead of worrying about a Muslim in the White House, or the First Black President, or Woman President or Woman Vice-President, this country needs to worry about a qualified person in the White House. Maybe if they had worried a bit more over the past several years, we wouldn't have our current uh, president.

[only1alphafemale]

You have both stated some great points in both of these posts to my way of thinking and agreeing! I applaud you both! :clap::applause::flag:

My grandmother always said, "You never really know someone until you *live with them* or they become a President of the United States" ~ :yes: and NOT all Gods, are a waring "God"....!

[Red Mule]

Many Muslim countries are also nations “under god.” There are a few problems with that. Religion, both theirs and ours, does not admit to error. Everything is black and white. Anyone that disagrees with the “state religion” is in deep do-do. In their case, women are second-class citizens who have very few rights as compared to men. But that’s OK because that’s what their religion believes.

There were also plenty of times in our own history when religious minorities had to hide or flee to escape persecution. It wasn’t all that long ago that Jews were excluded and persecuted in the good old “god fearing” US of A. And as so many on the political right have become more fundamentalist and less open-minded, I am not convinced those times are past here.

I know of no cases where the people that want religion taught in the schools don’t really mean their own particular version of religion. And if science happens to disagree with what their religion believes, I think they would rather throw out centuries of hard won scientific knowledge than teach something that disagrees with their religious beliefs.

No. I am not without a belief in God and my own set of religious convictions. But, I think we need to be very careful with religion around our politics, our courts, and our schools. Let everyone be free to worship as he or she pleases, or not at all. Laws should not be based on the standards of a specific religion, even if it is in the majority. The Bible, it was claimed by many in the south, supported both slavery and segregation. Or so the southern voting majority read it at the time.

If you want to teach religion, do so in your own church or temple. But don’t do it in our schools unless you are prepared to teach everyone’s religion equally and explain that there is no proof that one is any better than the other. We have system of laws and education in the United States that might not be perfect, but if we ever have one that some people think is perfect, we’ll really be in trouble.

[Ironhorse]

And until there is that miracle of all religions being equal, man will continue to destroy civilizations with wars over religion and wealth. In other words? It ain't gonna happen in my lifetime, much as I'd love it to.

[Red Mule]

And I assume I don't really have to explain to anyone here that NONE of our current candidates is Muslim? And it shouldn't matter at all that Obama attends a Christian church much more regularly than McCain. It doesn't make him any better, or any worse. Want to complain about his minister? I've had a few over the years I wasn't too happy with either. But, I often stayed with my church because I liked the other people there and because I liked the main message. And that doesn't make me any better or worse.

[Ironhorse]

And I assume I don't really have to explain to anyone here that NONE of our current candidates is Muslim? And it shouldn't matter at all that Obama attends a Christian church much more regularly than McCain. It doesn't make him any better, or any worse. Want to complain about his minister? I've had a few over the years I wasn't too happy with either. But, I often stayed with my church because I liked the other people there and because I liked the main message. And that doesn't make me any better or worse.

No, you shouldn't HAVE to explain all that, but that issue does keep resurfacing, doesn't it. All because some don't check their facts before passing along the newest e-mail they receive. Funny how when you track back on those pesky e-mails, some have been shooting around in cyber-space for years,................................because people never check their validity.

[Dawn]

I don't like the fact that our money says: "In God we trust."

[Yosemite Joy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust

You aren't the only one Dawn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance

Under God.



I love it when people research and think.

[MtnBreeze]

What difference does it make what the money says? It's money LOL....sometimes we get too caught up in words IMO and politically correct. Having words on money in no way affects you as a person. You are still free to choose your own way of thinking.
Anyway..I just wanted to say I agree with Ironhorse and am glad she started this thread. It shows some of us ARE researching and looking for the truth. (a sometimes difficult task).

[Red Mule]

According to the movie Religulous, Benjamin Franklin, who is on our $20 said, "Lighthouses are more useful than churches," Thomas Jefferson and John Adams said things even less complementary about religion, although I can’t remember the quotes right now.

On the other hand, I’ve seen complaints that the Masonic pyramid on the $1 bill promotes satanic worship. My source? http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20Government/Federal%20Reserve%20Scam/satan_on_our_dollar.htm

So, one might argue that it all evens out. And, unless the continuing financial crisis brings down the US government, the money still spends. I agree with MtnBreeze that we sometimes get too wrapped up in always being politically correct.

[Ironhorse]

What difference does it make what the money says? It's money LOL....sometimes we get too caught up in words IMO and politically correct. Having words on money in no way affects you as a person. You are still free to choose your own way of thinking.
Anyway..I just wanted to say I agree with Ironhorse and am glad she started this thread. It shows some of us ARE researching and looking for the truth. (a sometimes difficult task).

Thank you! Being retired, I do have to find some way to occupy myself. Also, I don't remember much about it, but can remember seeing on TV and in newspapers when John F. Kennedy was elected President. That fact that he was a Catholic really brought agony to some. Now no one would even thing twice about it. So Barack, keep the faith baby, in 40+ years, no one will care about the fact that you're "supposed" to be a Muslim.

[MadScot]

I think people forget that this country was founded by people revolting against a king that was sanctified by the church. The forefathers shaped our Democracy on the philosophy of John Locke. The separation of church and state is a fundamental of the democratic system as envisioned by Locke. He felt so strongly on this that he believed Catholics should not be citizens since they pledged allegiance to a foreign power. This belief was manifested as late as the JFK race for the presidency when Republicans claimed if elected Kennedy would be taking marching orders from the Vatican
The following is a portion of Locke’s “A Letter Concerning Toleration” It’s not an easy read but well worth it.

in a word, that none may impose either upon himself or others, by the pretences of loyalty and obedience to the prince, or of tenderness and sincerity in the worship of God; I esteem it above all things necessary to distinguish exactly the business of civil government from that of religion and to settle the just bounds that lie between the one and the other. If this be not done, there can be no end put to the controversies that will be always arising between those that have, or at least pretend to have, on the one side, a concernment for the interest of men's souls, and, on the other side, a care of the commonwealth.

(Entire text) http://www.constitution.org/jl/tolerati.htm

. It was with this in mind that the forefathers clarified things in the First Amendment “ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof‘.

I think this is pretty cut and dry. So much that I question whether or not Religious groups who try to legislate their doctrines on society are guilty of treason.

If not for the millions who have died over the question of whose God is the real God it would be funny. Group C says Groups A,B and C all worship the same God. Group B says A and B worship the same God. Group A says B and C may think they worship my God but they got duped. B says A got it mostly right but C got duped. Oops I left out group D who says your all close but I got some magic glasses and here's the real deal.