CA Proposition 1A: Safe, Reliable High-Speed Passenger Train Bond Act

[Sandman]

SAFE, RELIABLE HIGH-SPEED PASSENGER TRAIN BOND ACT.



Provides long-distance commuters with a safe, convenient, affordable, and reliable alternative to driving and high gas prices.
Reduces traffic congestion on the state’s highways and at the state’s airports.
Reduces California’s dependence on foreign oil.
Reduces air pollution and global warming greenhouse gases.
Establishes a clean, efficient 220 MPH transportation system.
Improves existing passenger rail lines serving the state’s major population centers.
Provides for California’s growing population.
Provides for a bond issue of $9.95 billion to establish high-speed train service linking Southern California counties, the Sacramento/San Joaquin Valley, and the San Francisco Bay Area.
Provides that at least 90% of these bond funds shall be spent for specific construction projects, with private and public matching funds required, including, but not limited to, federal funds, funds from revenue bonds, and local funds.
Requires that use of all bond funds is subject to independent audits.
Appropriates money from the General Fund to pay bond principal and interest.

Summary of Legislative Analyst’s Estimate of Net State and Local Government Fiscal Impact:



State costs of about $19.4 billion, assuming 30 years to pay off both principal ($9.95 billion) and interest ($9.5 billion) costs of the bonds. Payments of about $647 million per year.
When constructed, additional unknown costs, probably in excess of $1 billion a year, to operate and maintain a high-speed train system. The costs would be at least partially, and potentially fully, offset by passenger fare revenues, depending on ridership.

http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/title-sum/prop1a-title-sum.htm

[citizen]

A fast train from SF to LA? Way Cool!!! I'm voting YES

[Sandman]

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2008/10/19/ba-rail20_transb_0499117331.jpg (http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2008/10/19/ba-rail20_transb_0499117331.jpg)

This Prop Passed! It will take approx. 1 hour to get from Fresno to downtown SF or downtown LA.

[only1alphafemale]

That would be like a dream come true for me, with all of the trips I have to take to UCSF! :D

[Red Mule]

I just hope I live long enough to ride it!

:)

[David_V]

This Prop Passed! It will take approx. 1 hour to get from Fresno to downtown SF or downtown LA.
You mean it will take ten years and one hour. The problem is that it will be obsolete by the time it's built.

[only1alphafemale]

I just hope I live long enough to ride it!

:)


Drats! I forgot that aspect of it. ( Is it really supposed to take "ten years?" to build it like David_V said? :eek: )

[Sandman]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/05/BA3B13ULVA.DTL

(11-05) 09:55 PST SACRAMENTO -- California voters appeared to be climbing on board a plan to start construction of the nation's first high-speed rail system. <hr>
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Voters back Prop. 12 - low-cost loans to vets (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/05/BA3B13UMTQ.DTL&type=newsbayarea) 11.05.08
Oakland police tax fails (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/05/BA3B13UNQ8.DTL&type=newsbayarea) 11.05.08
New lineup of S.F. supervisors (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/05/BA3B13UO0L.DTL&type=newsbayarea) 11.05.08
Castro celebrates Obama, bemoans a Prop. 8 win (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/05/BA3B13UM7K.DTL&type=newsbayarea) 11.05.08

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<!--/articlebox --> With 95 percent of ballots counted, Proposition 1A was holding a steady lead.
The bond measure would approve the sale of nearly $10 billion in bonds as a down payment on an 800-mile high-speed rail network that would send electric trains zipping between Northern and Southern California at up to 220 mph.
Supporters, including transportation, environmental and business groups and the heavy-construction industry, said high-speed rail would offer a fast, greener and less-costly way to travel up and down the state.
Opponents - mainly taxpayers groups and the libertarian Reason Foundation - criticized the high-speed rail proposal as either poorly planned or a good idea that the state can't afford in trying economic times.
"I'm happy," said Quentin Kopp, chairman of the High Speed Rail Authority and chief spokesman for the Yes on 1A campaign. "I'm confident the federal government will not only match this $9.9 billion but double it."
Kopp also hailed Californians "for showing we are as intrepid and energetic as the argonauts of the 19th century and our forefathers during the Depression who built the Golden Gate Bridge and the Bay Bridge."
Proposition 1A would start funding construction of a high-speed rail line between the Transbay Terminal in San Francisco and Los Angeles Union Station. The trip would take about 21/2 hours, according to the High Speed Rail Authority, and would cost $55 one way. After departing San Francisco, the train would make stops on the Peninsula and in San Jose and Gilroy before heading over the Pacheco Pass to the San Joaquin Valley and points south.
The system would be the largest public works project in California history - bigger than the California Aqueduct - and would cost $32 billion for the main line between San Francisco and Los Angeles and another $10 billion to $12 billion to complete the network with extensions to San Diego, Sacramento and Riverside County. The state is banking on getting about a third of the construction budget from state taxpayers, a third from the federal government and a third from private investors.
The bulk of the bond revenues - $9 billion - would be spent on planning and building the system, and the remaining $950 million would be devoted to connecting rail service, such as BART, the Altamont Commuter Express and the Capitol Corridor.
Legislators originally placed the rail bond on the ballot in 2004, but postponed it twice at the request of Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who said the state couldn't incur further debt. Although he has warned that the state may face a $10 billion deficit in its month-old budget, the governor is supporting the rail bond as an important investment in the state's transportation system.
A Field Poll in July found that 56 percent of likely voters favored the measure, and 30 percent were opposed. But Proposition 1A backers saw support slip as the state budget crisis dragged on and the nation's economy slid into a steeper decline.

[jakobscalpel]

You mean it will take ten years and one hour. The problem is that it will be obsolete by the time it's built.

Why do you think it will be obsolete?

[jakobscalpel]

before heading over the Pacheco Pass to the San Joaquin Valley

What an engineering project! Would love to see how they plan to fit the rail line through the pass... and I hope they dump some of the excess concrete on 152 between Gilroy and Casa de Fruta to make it two lanes each way.

[MtnBreeze]

You mean it will take ten years and one hour. The problem is that it will be obsolete by the time it's built.
Obsolete? Please explain this....we will have better options by then? 10 years doesn't seem all that long for such a major project....

Hopes I live long enough to ride it also. LOL but I won't ride the one that goes under the bay in SF...hopefully it will be above ground ;)
Is excited to see projects that actually help the environment.

[Sandman]

You mean it will take ten years and one hour. The problem is that it will be obsolete by the time it's built.

With that attitude, we should never build anything because technology is always improving. BART was built in the 70's right? It's not obsolete.

[Red Mule]

I would be surprised if it's up and running before 10 years. But, I say, go ahead and build it anyway. Even if I don't last that long, my kids and grandkids will enjoy it.

Maybe, in the meantime, they will link Amtrack and BART without us having to ride busses in between.

As far as it being obsolete by then, I think gas burning autos are obsolete, but I'm still driving one while I wait for the next better thing to show up in my driveway.

[Sandman]

Maybe, in the meantime, they will link Amtrack and BART without us having to ride busses in between.

Get off at the Richmond Station. Walk downstairs and jump on BART. Amtrak and BART are in the same station in Richmond. No bus, cheaper and less time. That's what I do when I take Amtrak to San Francisco or Berkeley.

[dancingqueen]

My husband and I are soooo excited that it passed. We plan on living another 20 + years, will be so nice when we are older and should not be driving to SF.

[Kahlua Kid]

As far as it being obsolete by then, I think gas burning autos are obsolete, but I'm still driving one while I wait for the next better thing to show up in my driveway.

Touche! Cheers.

I can't wait to take the train to SF or LA in the future! I absolute HATE driving the Central Valley - would rather be on a train able to read or sleep that travel route!

[David_V]

Why do you think it will be obsolete?
It's that way with highway construction in Calif. By the time they've finished it's already too small to handle the new traffic load. I've seen that happen several times in the Bay Area.

I guessed it would take ten years. I'm pretty sure they'll have to do all kinds of Environmental Impact Reports, and so one. That takes years. Then the construction will take years. It could easily add up to ten years. Then you might have some city decide to sue over the route and so on.

[David_V]

With that attitude, we should never build anything because technology is always improving. BART was built in the 70's right? It's not obsolete.
It is. It cannot handle the loads it was intended to. It does work though. There is a large group of people that are always whining about how inefficient BART is. I love it when BART shuts down for some emergency or something. The whole Bay Area is gridlocked by the extra cars.

Hopefully those that build this rail system will have the foresight to make it upgradable as they go along.

[David_V]

Obsolete? Please explain this....we will have better options by then? 10 years doesn't seem all that long for such a major project....

Hopes I live long enough to ride it also. LOL but I won't ride the one that goes under the bay in SF...hopefully it will be above ground ;)
Is excited to see projects that actually help the environment.
I've been under the bay hundreds of time. No problem there, and not one problem since it opened.

Just a side note... anyone remember the movie "THX 1138"? It was George Lucas' first big movie. The last segment was filmed in the unfinished underwater section of BART. You can also spot the Alameda Tube. Good scifi movie. The hero was in trouble for NOT taking the medications the government made everyone take.

[jakobscalpel]

It's that way with highway construction in Calif. By the time they've finished it's already too small to handle the new traffic load. I've seen that happen several times in the Bay Area.

I guessed it would take ten years. I'm pretty sure they'll have to do all kinds of Environmental Impact Reports, and so one. That takes years. Then the construction will take years. It could easily add up to ten years. Then you might have some city decide to sue over the route and so on.

I would be very surprised if the train project is completed in ten years, unless we get a new deal style push of large government projects employing tens of thousands. Also, I certainly agree with you about highway construction and the poor traffic planning. It seems most of civil engineering is enraptured by the idea that anyone can overbuild a structure but it takes a genius to build one that just meets criteria. That may even be true and makes some sense when applied to things like bridges; but for highways it has always seemed to me that the most efficient time to do expansion is during the initial building phase. Why throttle traffic when the whole highway philosophy is "if you build it they will come"

My biggest worry about the SF to LA train is that it is already obsolete in the sense that 2.5 hours from SF to LA is no faster than commuter flights, assuming that it takes longer in the terminal for airlines than trains. Also, for myself, I can't really imagine taking a $55 dollar trip for all four of my family to get to SF in an hour (after an hour drive to Fresno) and then have no car with me. I took BART for four years and love it, but it is best as a commuter train and not as a tourist one.

Still, I'm glad this passed. I'd much rather see money wasted on something tangible and interesting, like a bullet train or mass investment in fusion (oh sorry, that last was in the parallel, intelligent, world I occasionally visit). The bullet train is fractionally as expensive as the bazillions wasted in Iraq or Washington...or even Sacramento, and is much more fun.

[dancingqueen]

Thank you Sandman. A group of us gals are wanting to go to SF to see the play Wicked and we were wondering if we could do it on Amtrack/Bart. You have answered our question, I wrote your instuctions down and will pass them along to my friends.

[David_V]

...Still, I'm glad this passed. I'd much rather see money wasted on something tangible and interesting, like a bullet train or mass investment in fusion (oh sorry, that last was in the parallel, intelligent, world I occasionally visit). The bullet train is fractionally as expensive as the bazillions wasted in Iraq or Washington...or even Sacramento, and is much more fun.
My fear is that they will price it at something like twice the cost of airfare. Isn't that the problem with AmTrack now? It's cheaper to fly? It was that way for awhile, have prices changed lately?

One thing to think about with this train; in order for it to make that one hour run, it MUST have long straight, level, stretches of tack with few, if any, stops. The "milk run" will take considerably longer. I wonder how they'd schedule that? A few "starlight expresses" that don't stop and a few milk runs during the day? That's what I'd do.

[kellieflan]

The train is currently less expensive than flights. I also find the train much more enjoyable, soothing, pleasant. Air travel is big fat stressful hassle these days, ever since I had to let go of my own little Lear. The train does not go to Hawaii though, but I will, in three weeks. On United. Aloha!

[Red Mule]

Yes, Thanks from me too.

As a lark and to test our current public transportation, I plan to see how far I can get.

Oakhurst to Fresno or Madera Amtrak, I'm still working on. Maybe the senior citizen bus I see running around. Anyone have any information on how I could best get from Oakhurst to a valley Amtrak connection on public transportation?

Amtrak: Fresno or Madera to Richmond Station.

BART: Richmond Station to Embarcadaro in SF.

Some kind of bay boat ride. (If time allows)

And then back the same way / same day.
-------------

All suggestions and comments welcome. :)

[David_V]

The train is currently less expensive than flights. I also find the train much more enjoyable, soothing, pleasant. Air travel is big fat stressful hassle these days, ever since I had to let go of my own little Lear. The train does not go to Hawaii though, but I will, in three weeks. On United. Aloha!
I haven't been on the train for a quite awhile. It might be time for a trip to Sacramento.... I just looked.... $36 round trip including a 15% discount for veterans. It would cost more than that in gas.

[Yosemite Joy]

I haven't been on the train for a quite awhile. It might be time for a trip to Sacramento.... I just looked.... $36 round trip including a 15% discount for veterans. It would cost more than that in gas.

You could go to the train museum! I love that place.

I like Amtrak as well, but not from Grand Forks, ND to Sacramento. That was too damn long on a train.

I have taken the train from Sacto to Fresno, and it was nice, and cheap (military discount then).

[Yosemite Joy]

Also, for myself, I can't really imagine taking a $55 dollar trip for all four of my family to get to SF in an hour...





Don't worry, in 10 years your kids will be driving, and they probably won't be too keen on hanging out with mom and dad.

[David_V]

You could go to the train museum! I love that place.
I've been there several times. I helped some of the staff handle a few difficult questions. :cool:

[MtnBreeze]

I've been under the bay hundreds of time. No problem there, and not one problem since it opened.

Just a side note... anyone remember the movie "THX 1138"? It was George Lucas' first big movie. The last segment was filmed in the unfinished underwater section of BART. You can also spot the Alameda Tube. Good scifi movie. The hero was in trouble for NOT taking the medications the government made everyone take.

LOL David ..I've been under it too..is just my claustraphobia kicks in..and I could actually tell when we were under water...I didn't like it....but I like Bart....hahahaha...and as far as that movie...might not be so far fetched eh ;)

[David_V]

LOL David ..I've been under it too..is just my claustraphobia kicks in..and I could actually tell when we were under water...I didn't like it....but I like Bart....hahahaha...and as far as that movie...might not be so far fetched eh ;)
It could happen. The history of humanity contains many attempts to control the populations.

As for the claustrophobia, just remember that you do not have to give in to the feelings. You can argue against them.... just remember to win. :D

[1roscoe]

I love trains. I was never on one until the airplaine I was on from California to Boston chose to hit a patch of ice when landing at Logan airport and sliped into a very cold ocean.
I have never gotten on an airplane again. I was visting family in Boston and chose to take Amtrack home. I had so much fun. It was to be almost a 4 day trip from coast to coast. It was longer, get off the train here, take a bus to there and get on a train to go there. Stay at a hotel here (free), snow on tracks; very strange hotel but a real adventure.
I love taking Amtrack coast to coast. It is not like flying where everyone wants to be left alone in their own little world.
The time factor is not as good as flying or driving though. The last time I traveled by train to see my family in Boston, only had 10 days off from work and due to delays and other train problems I only had a few hours to visit with my sister before having to get back on the train to go home.
I don't think I will ever take an airplane again. I only have one problem now, my sister who I was visiting in Boston now lives in China. I know you can not take a train from her to there. While I know I won't fly anywhere; :mad:you don't want me to go on about planes, boats are not the answer for me.:confused: