Gaza

[Red Mule]

I imagine a house on my street where gang bangers hide inside and shoot at cars passing by and at neighboring houses. The authorities hesitate on what to do because the house with the gang bangers also has innocent men, women and children inside. They know that to stop the shooting, they will probably have to send in a Swat team and innocents will be caught in the cross fire. While they hesitate, a child in a house across the street gets killed.

The authorities try to surround the house and evacuate nearby homes, but not all the neighbors are willing to leave and the gun fire continues. The gang bangers claim people have been hurt and the authorities allow some people inside to help. Later, it becomes clear that someone has smuggled in ammunition and bigger guns. Now the gang bangers are firing over the nearby houses into houses in the next block. Their chances of hitting anyone is less, but it is only a matter of time before someone new is killed.

The authorities try firing back at the gang bangers when they stick their guns out the window, but they hid behind the other people in the house and innocents inside are hit. When word of this gets out, people in other towns start demonstrating against my town. I wonder where was the concern when it was only my neighbors that were getting killed? Why don't these people also demonstrate against the gang bangers? Because they are poor and had bad upbringing? Maybe they think the house next door was illegally taken from them? This makes shooting at others OK and authorities trying to stop the violence not OK?

Finally, the authorities send in a Swat team and people on all sides are killed. Even as they enter the house, they realize they can't get find and remove all the gang bangers because it's impossible to tell them from the innocent people. They know that some of their own will get shot as well as some innocent people. But, the neighbors were not willing to wait a moment longer as gun fire continued to endanger them and their children. The people in other towns complain because the Swat team used bigger guns than the gang bangers had. They claim the authorities over-reacted.

Sound familiar? What if the name of the town is Middle East and the name of the street is Gaza? I hate war as much as anyone and wish there were other choices. But, I sure don't see too many other choices available to Israel. Is there something I am missing?

[tocools]

Nope you hit the NAIL on the head good post

[only1alphafemale]

:applause: Well described and told Red Mule ~ This made it very easy to grasp.

[David_V]

Change the people in the house from gang members to a group that sincerely believes they are defending their home from bullies, and you'll have a better picture of what is really going on.

[Yosemite Joy]

Change the people in the house from gang members to a group that sincerely believes they are defending their home from bullies, and you'll have a better picture of what is really going on.

Nicely put, thank you for that.

[only1alphafemale]

There are such varied and convoluted opinions and interpersonal feelings mixed and mingled in every ones opinions regarding anything that goes on in the middle east, its hard to grasp at times and most definately confusing..:confused:

[MtnBreeze]

I think in actuality we know very little about any middle east cultures. Even in school we are taught history of many cultures but not the middle east. Most of us fear or misjudge what we know little about and now almost all our information comes from the media which is not factual much of the time. I am not saying anything said above is right or wrong..I am saying it is difficult for us to understand or make sense of. We are very, very lucky to live where we do and cannot fathom alot that goes on in other parts of the world. We also think they should all think like "we" do. There are no easy answers.

[David_V]

Nicely put, thank you for that.
Thanks. Now, don't get me wrong, I am in no way condoning the actions of EITHER side. In my opinion; the time for peace talks is over. An international force needs to be gotten together, Israel needs to pull all it's civilians, paramilitary, and military, out of Palestine. Then that international force will occupy the border and any one firing anything over the border will meet with a swift response from that international force. It will have to be that way until both sides mature enough to end the violence on their own.

[Red Mule]

re: An international force needs to be gotten together, Israel needs to pull all it's civilians, paramilitary, and military, out of Palestine.

Unfortunately, up until now there is no international armed force that wants to take up the task. Hopefully that will change.

As far as many Palestinians and other Arabs feel, ALL of the country of present day Israel is Palestine. And, they have historical basis for their belief. Of course, the Jews also have historical basis for their belief that it is not. And while there are those on each side that are willing to compromise, there are also many that so far have never been willing to compromise. One hope that will someday change.

I am in sympathy with the Palestinians on many issues. They DO deserve redress for the many unfair and unjust violations of their rights. Just as most minorities in our own country. But, how sympathetic would any of us be if those in our own culture that have been wronged decided to use terrorism that killed innocents to get justice?

Shooting rockets randomly into the air and not caring where they land is simply criminal. It is not a act of war, it is an act of terrorism.

MtnBreeze, RE: I think in actuality we know very little about any middle east cultures.

You are mostly correct in this too. Almost every single present day middle eastern country was established by the Brits and French dividing up the area after WWI and the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire. And they weren't too careful about where different tribes and ethnic groups were situated in relation to those borders either. That's one reason there are countries like Iraq that have Kurds, Shiites, and Suni's trying to share the same country. The borders are unnatural.

We shouldn't be too surprised at the instability of any of these countries. We think of ourselves as a "new" country, but we have about twice as much experience in self government and none of the tribal loyalties and established state religious issues that they do.

[David_V]

Unfortunately, up until now there is no international armed force that wants to take up the task. Hopefully that will change.
First the US has to end this absurd backing of Israel no matter what they do.

As far as many Palestinians and other Arabs feel, ALL of the country of present day Israel is Palestine. And, they have historical basis for their belief. Of course, the Jews also have historical basis for their belief that it is not. And while there are those on each side that are willing to compromise, there are also many that so far have never been willing to compromise. One hope that will someday change.
The Palestinians long ago said they'd accept a two state solution. Unfortunately the Palestinian state that was proposed (and I don't think seriously) by Israel left Palestine looking like Swiss cheese with an Israeli "settlement" right on top of every water supply and on most of the arable land. That was more of an insult than an offering of peace.

I am in sympathy with the Palestinians on many issues. They DO deserve redress for the many unfair and unjust violations of their rights. Just as most minorities in our own country. But, how sympathetic would any of us be if those in our own culture that have been wronged decided to use terrorism that killed innocents to get justice?
Their tactics are those of a desperate people. They are being besieged by a vastly superior force. I can sympathize, but still not condone. I might do the same thing in their position.

Shooting rockets randomly into the air and not caring where they land is simply criminal. It is not a act of war, it is an act of terrorism.
So is bulldozing the homes of Palestinians ACCUSED of shooting anything at any Israeli. So is shooting children for throwing rocks. So is blockading medical supplies. Israel is not innocent in all this.

I read a story about this Israeli "settler" driving along a street in Palestine. He hit, and killed, a Palestinian boy. He was screaming and yelling... about the damage to his car.

Recently there were news reports about these Palestinians that were fired upon, beaten up, and arrested for harvesting olives. Why? They were doing this vile act within a half kilometer from the border.

How can anyone even be looking at a peaceful solution with those kinds of attitudes? I don't believe the Israeli government wants peace. They have too much political capital invested in being in a continuous war. And it could be the same for the Palestinians. That's why I say peace will have to be forced on them.

[fluver]

Nicely written

Lisa

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