Citizens duty

[9thLife]

There should be a better way. Juror selection process is flawed. My step son was issued an arrest warrant because he didn't show for their duty. He has no licence, car or any way to get from Ahwahnee to Madera. Unless there's a bus that I don't know about. I think it's time to initiate professional jurors.

[Dawn]

The Madera court was always rude when I spoke to them about the jury duty. They bother me all the time with their papers. They don't want to excuse anyone even though we live far from the court. They said you have to show up the first day and speak to the judge if there are transportation issues, etc...

[Kim]

Jury duty's your responsibility and that's how it is. It's the same level as taxes...if you're going to be a part of this society, then you have some obligations. There are a lot of problems with the legal system, but jury selection is what it is, and until you show me something better, getting to have your jurors chosen from a wide pool is better than other options.
You're given plenty of notice to find a way to get there on the first day, and if you need to postpone and pick a good time to appear you are given that option on your jury duty notice. I've taken advantage of that myself. I also didn't show up on the week I rescheduled because my nephew was born and quickly transferred to the Peds ICU in Sacramento, and when I was called to ask why I didn't appear they were great with me. Professional jurors are not feasible because there's too much potential for jury tampering, and very little chance that if you are the defendant you'll get anywhere near a jury of your peers.

[kellieflan]

I have been asked to serve twice since I moved up here - the first time I requested and was granted a postponement because it was smack in the middle of the holidays. The second time, I was dismissed without even having to ever go - I just had to call two evenings in a row, turns out I was not needed. They have been very friendly and nice. My husband has had to drive out there only to be dismissed. They find you through the DMV.

[Freeweelin]

I truly believe it is your civic duty to participate. I have been selected numerous times. If you are selected you are offered some options. The only issue I have is that the compensation should be on a scale according to your needs. In most cases the employer is not required to compensate your wages. Serving could/and is a financial hardship to some. Otherwise the Jury process is one of the rights and responsibilities of being a citizen.

[jakobscalpel]

Otherwise the Jury process is one of the rights and responsibilities of being a citizen.

The work "responsibilities " requires an element of choice for it to be truly a responsibility. If there is no element of choice then it is not a responsibility, or even a duty, it is a requirement. If you have a requirement then you do not really have "rights". Sure, I suppose it can be argued that we have a choice not to participate in jury selection but we all know that really isn't true for most people. The government had made the downside for the choice to large for it to really be an option.

I'm in favor of either all voluntary or professional juries. I could care less about the repercussions for the lawful foundations of the US. After all, is this our country or the country of people who have been dead for 180 years? It is time for this anachronism to change.

We have the opportunity to turn jury selection from an irritating nuisance and economic black hole of lost productivity into a money maker.

If the jury pool was known, third party companies would exist to provide law firms with detailed statistical and psychological reports for each juror. We could televise voir dire like a reality show and people could root for their favorite jurors to be selected. Public voting could even be a part and the voting could have a minor transaction charge associated with it. Jurors that were perceived as corrupt could be impeached from the available pool. Lobbyists would exist to try and influence the jurors, opening up another venue for third party vendors to provide the disclosure required to keep things on the up and up.

All of these are money makers and are superior to our current system. Time for change.

[Bob Cat]

Professional jurors? Reality shows? Impeachment to get rid of corruption? Bring money making into the process? Yikes!

I agree that the current process can be a big pain. But I cannot believe these ideas could ever make it better. With all due respect -- for me, professional jurors = scary!

[Freeweelin]

If you have a requirement then you do not really have "rights".

I am refering to the defendent.
You have an intersting progressive suggestion. Food for thought.

[BooBooBear]

I truly believe it is your civic duty to participate. I have been selected numerous times. If you are selected you are offered some options. The only issue I have is that the compensation should be on a scale according to your needs. In most cases the employer is not required to compensate your wages. Serving could/and is a financial hardship to some. Otherwise the Jury process is one of the rights and responsibilities of being a citizen.

I agree this is part of being a citizen but it's a PITA!!

The compensation sucks....the mileage sucks....and the fact that you have to drive all the way down there wasting 2 hours in just driving time alone & gas. In this economic time I'm sure they are going to be overwhelmed with that excuse and I'm sure they're going to say "Tuff".

I hate the process it's annoying and like I said a general PITA!! Oh and for me...the fact I have to get up at the but crack of dawn to get there in time really ticks me off....I am sooooo not a morning person!!

[Dodgergirl]

The work "responsibilities " requires an element of choice for it to be truly a responsibility. If there is no element of choice then it is not a responsibility, or even a duty, it is a requirement. If you have a requirement then you do not really have "rights". Sure, I suppose it can be argued that we have a choice not to participate in jury selection but we all know that really isn't true for most people. The government had made the downside for the choice to large for it to really be an option.

I'm in favor of either all voluntary or professional juries. I could care less about the repercussions for the lawful foundations of the US. After all, is this our country or the country of people who have been dead for 180 years? It is time for this anachronism to change.

We have the opportunity to turn jury selection from an irritating nuisance and economic black hole of lost productivity into a money maker.

If the jury pool was known, third party companies would exist to provide law firms with detailed statistical and psychological reports for each juror. We could televise voir dire like a reality show and people could root for their favorite jurors to be selected. Public voting could even be a part and the voting could have a minor transaction charge associated with it. Jurors that were perceived as corrupt could be impeached from the available pool. Lobbyists would exist to try and influence the jurors, opening up another venue for third party vendors to provide the disclosure required to keep things on the up and up.

All of these are money makers and are superior to our current system. Time for change.

Interesting, another possibility is viewing a trial via webcam. They do this with inmates, so as not to have to transfer them to courthouses... why couldn't a juror have the same consideration? I have taken classes online where we have group discussions as they do in the jury room. I'm sure there would be some complications, but it could be a way to go in the future. There are a lot of people who would gladly serve from the comfort of their own home or office.

[Red Mule]

Just because we have always done something a certain way doesn't mean there might not be a better way. Society and Technology changes. If by so doing, we can insure a better justice system, then we should change it.

Judges: I think there should be 3 of them. This would help make sure a single judge doesn't get his or her personal prejudices involved. Many trials could be better served, if both sides agree, with just this 3 judge panel.

Juries: Could be smaller and an odd number. There is no magic to the number 12. Could be majority rule. Requiring unanimous agreement creates more hung juries where a single juror can gum up the whole works. Maybe 2/3s majority should be enough. As far as citizen participation, make it voluntary as long as there is a sufficient pool of willing people. Unwilling jurors are less likely to make good decisions. Increase payment to volunteer jurors.

Evidence: If the object is to free the innocent and properly deal with the guilty, then all the rules should be reexamined. You could argue that using fingerprints and DNA is giving testimony against yourself, yet we accept it. So, why not use lie detectors and drugs and any other advances to find the truth. Introduce the results along with their statistical odds of being correct. Let the preponderance of all the evidence help the jury.

Judgments: Stop this idea that every guilty person is the same and deserves to go to the same prison. In many cases, prisons are only a sure way to change a minor non-violent criminal into something much worse. If rape and violence is an inhuman punishment if decreed from the bench, then it is just as wrong to put a minor criminal into a place where he or she is not protected against those injustices being imposed by other inmates.

Reserve prisons for violent criminals that prey on society. Otherwise look at more community service, home confinement, and treatment programs.

[Iris]

I truly believe it is your civic duty to participate. I have been selected numerous times. If you are selected you are offered some options. The only issue I have is that the compensation should be on a scale according to your needs. In most cases the employer is not required to compensate your wages. Serving could/and is a financial hardship to some. Otherwise the Jury process is one of the rights and responsibilities of being a citizen.

With regard to the last sentence of your post, I think that the term "rights" does apply. It applies in that as a citizen, you have a "right" to a trial by a jury of your peers AND the responsibility to serve as such. JMHO

[yosemitewriter]

You are all missing the point. The 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution states:

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Both jury duty and the draft are in violation of this amendment. They are both INVOLUNTARY SERVITUDE. Please do NOT write me about your opinions of "duty" and "civic responsibility" because you will still be wrong. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land. This is not up for discussion by any rational person.

[Iris]

YW, the members of this Forum have the right to post any opinions regarding "duty" and "civic responsibility" that they deem appropriate. The fact that you believe everyone else to be wrong and irrational, is your issue.

[Red Mule]

However, it is the Supreme Court that is the supreme arbiter of the Constitution and determines exactly what it means. Also, the Congress and the people have the ability to change or amend it. It is not something cast in concrete, but a dynamic document that needs to evolve if our country is to survive.

The original wording and intent of the Constitution was far from being something we would accept today.

[Edana]

YWriter makes a very good point. Ill be thinking on that for a while.

My issue with jury duty is the little blip that tells you that childcare is not a legit excuse. Since when?? I homeschool, so for me to take a day to go to court would mean that my child would be out of school and I would have to find a sitter that I cannot afford. Should my sitter take a day off as well so that I can do my time? I think the court desperately needs to create a childcare option or leave the parents alone.

[Red Mule]

Edana,
Just remember that according to the original constitution you would not have to serve jury duty. Nor would you be allowed to vote. The two do kind of go together unless we all decide to change it again. :)

[ward]

You are all missing the point. The 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution states:

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Both jury duty and the draft are in violation of this amendment. They are both INVOLUNTARY SERVITUDE. Please do NOT write me about your opinions of "duty" and "civic responsibility" because you will still be wrong. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land. This is not up for discussion by any rational person.

What's about Butler vs Perry (1916)?

See http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=240&invol=328

in which the Supreme Court held that the Thirteenth Amendment does not prohibit "enforcement of those duties which individuals owe to the state, such as services in the army, militia, on the jury, etc."

Sorry I don't see your pointy unless you are a libertarian. :)

[Dodgergirl]

YWriter makes a very good point. Ill be thinking on that for a while.

My issue with jury duty is the little blip that tells you that childcare is not a legit excuse. Since when?? I homeschool, so for me to take a day to go to court would mean that my child would be out of school and I would have to find a sitter that I cannot afford. Should my sitter take a day off as well so that I can do my time? I think the court desperately needs to create a childcare option or leave the parents alone.

and if you bring your children to court with you when you are called as a juror, as my daughter was told "You are in violation and CPS could be called"
she had to get a sitter for her 3 month old, wait her turn to see the judge and when she got in the box told the judge "I am a lactating mother". She was excused immediately, but she was in pain for hours.... nursing mothers will understand this.

[yosemitewriter]

Thank you for pointing out that law, which I was not familiar with. YES, I am a libertarian. This law is just one of many examples of the erosion of our constitution over the years. However, it amuses me that it comes from Florida, a state which I can't take seriously in matters of constitutional law when they have a major problem deciding who is going to be the next president.


What's about Butler vs Perry (1916)?

See http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=240&invol=328

in which the Supreme Court held that the Thirteenth Amendment does not prohibit "enforcement of those duties which individuals owe to the state, such as services in the army, militia, on the jury, etc."

Sorry I don't see your pointy unless you are a libertarian. :)

[yosemitewriter]

I have no problem with people showing their "duty" and "civic responsibility" if it is done on a voluntary basis and not forced or coerced. That is all well and good. My problem is people who think that those concepts should take precedence over the constitution. That is what I consider wrong...not whether or not they want to exercise those rights. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

YW, the members of this Forum have the right to post any opinions regarding "duty" and "civic responsibility" that they deem appropriate. The fact that you believe everyone else to be wrong and irrational, is your issue.

[Edana]

Edana,
Just remember that according to the original constitution you would not have to serve jury duty. Nor would you be allowed to vote. The two do kind of go together unless we all decide to change it again. :)


Bad time to bring up that I dont vote? *ducks n covers* But I do pay my speeding tickets! I figure thats civic duty enough.

DG, that is horrible! I mean good for your daughter doing the right thing, but still..its a little sick to threaten her with CPS like that.

[Red Mule]

ARGGGGG..

Edanna, register as an absentee voter. They send the ballot to your house along with a bunch of associated info that helps you decide, just in case you don't watch TV, listen to the radio, or read anything. :)

Then you have about a month to decide and sent it in. You can even vote in your PJs. Couldn't be easier! And then you can feel justified, like me, in voicing an opinion on anything you like without having to duck under the covers.

[Celticsoul]

Please see http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/jury/index.htm

[CatdaBrat]

The last time I showed up for the jury selection process, my group's orientation made us feel like we were prisoners in a war camp. The county employee giving "the talk" marched up and down, pointing her finger and jabbing the air and talking in a very loud, very rude manner to us, even going so far as to sound threatening.

Example: "And if ANY of you even THINK about leaving here today without turning in your juror's badge, we WILL come to your house, we WILL come to your place of employment and you WILL be sorry!" (I am not exaggerating one bit.) Why couldn't she have just said something like, "You are required to turn in your badges at the end of the day, thank you."

Also, my son got called to appear for duty which was on the same day he was scheduled to take out-of-town college finals, so we e-mailed the court. (This was for a second rescheduling...you'd think that out-of-the-area college students could be exempt.) The e-mail I got back was insulting and scathing, to say the least. Upon mentioning that my son was going to move to another county after graduation, the court person said that he MUST register as soon as he gets to his new location. That's a new one on me!

Anyway, this isn't a thread for jury-duty horror stories, but in getting back on track, all I can say is that given the negative attitude displayed by the fellow potential jurors I have spent time with, I sure wouldn't want them sitting in on any trial I was in! People who resent having to be there aren't in any kind of mood for making fair judgments, whether they're our peers or not.

I have never sat on a jury because the defense always excuses me, due to an extensive web of law enforcement in the family. The prosecution loves it, though!

[Red Mule]

I have sat on a jury and found it educational and enjoyable. of course, it helped that my employer paid my full salary for the time I was there, so I didn't have to lose any income. :)

As far as Cat's rude jury orientation, that's a shame. I know I wouldn't like it. I'd like to think I would speak up about it, but maybe not. There are rude people everywhere. Maybe more so in public employee positions that think they don't have to answer to us. I think they only get away with it because not enough of us call them on it.

[BooBooBear]

The last time I showed up for the jury selection process, my group's orientation made us feel like we were prisoners in a war camp. The county employee giving "the talk" marched up and down, pointing her finger and jabbing the air and talking in a very loud, very rude manner to us, even going so far as to sound threatening.

Example: "And if ANY of you even THINK about leaving here today without turning in your juror's badge, we WILL come to your house, we WILL come to your place of employment and you WILL be sorry!" (I am not exaggerating one bit.) Why couldn't she have just said something like, "You are required to turn in your badges at the end of the day, thank you."

Also, my son got called to appear for duty which was on the same day he was scheduled to take out-of-town college finals, so we e-mailed the court. (This was for a second rescheduling...you'd think that out-of-the-area college students could be exempt.) The e-mail I got back was insulting and scathing, to say the least. Upon mentioning that my son was going to move to another county after graduation, the court person said that he MUST register as soon as he gets to his new location. That's a new one on me!

Anyway, this isn't a thread for jury-duty horror stories, but in getting back on track, all I can say is that given the negative attitude displayed by the fellow potential jurors I have spent time with, I sure wouldn't want them sitting in on any trial I was in! People who resent having to be there aren't in any kind of mood for making fair judgments, whether they're our peers or not.

I have never sat on a jury because the defense always excuses me, due to an extensive web of law enforcement in the family. The prosecution loves it, though!

Wow....that's unbelieveable!! I would have probably written a formal complaint with that person's name in it. I totally agree with your statement "People who reset having to be there aren't in any kind of mood for making fair judgements" Guess I fit into that category because I just want to get the heck out of there everytime I have to go down. I don't care to sit through a trial no matter what. There are those who enjoy that kind of stuff, I am not one of them!

[CatdaBrat]

I was sorta afraid that if I made a formal complaint, I would end up being summoned 10 times more often than I already am! The one and only time I was summoned for jury duty at the Bass Lake court, we were treated very kindly and were profusely thanked. It was noted that EMC has a top-notch record for showing up when summoned. I would be a lot less grumpy if the mountain folks could just report to the mountain court instead of having to go all the way to Madera. I was thinking, maybe there aren't enough people up here to fill the need, but I am not sure. I know that a lot of Madera people get called up the hill.

Last time I went to Madera court, I was told that even if I wasn't picked for one trial, I still had to stay all day "in case" I got called for a different one. I spent all day there, just sitting around. All that travel time and gas, plus having to buy my lunch, then not being able to be home to fix dinner when I needed to.

[Mysteefied]

I probably wouldn't mind jury duty if I didn't have to drive all the way to Madera.

Why can't they send those of us that are closest to Bass lake?

My daughter got her first jury duty notice and it was for bass lake! I was peeved! I get one at least once a year, sometimes twice a year.

I have really bad panic/axiety issues and have to medicate to drive out there, it sucks.

[only1alphafemale]

I know when we first moved up here, the jury summons we received were always for Sierra Justice Court, (but that was 30 years ago)

I dont even recall the last time I received one from our local court! but its been a good 12 years or more. All of the ones I get are from down in Madera now too. :mad:

I wonder if there is anyone we can speak to regarding this? (Who wouldnt give us an *attitude*)

[monkey]

When I first started managing the Comfort Inn in Oakhurst, I was working tons of hours and got a summons for Madera in July, our busiest month. I knew they wouldn't accept an excuse of "I'm have to work too much" so I wrote them a letter telling them that my car wouldn't make it to Madera, but I would be happy to serve at Bass Lake. I got the excuse and was summoned to Bass Lake for several years. Now, I get summoned to Madera, I guess I got a better car!